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They’ve had three runners so far. .
I’d say they have been seriously underperforming for years, Librettist.
….and even if we are talking recent form, what about the debacle that was Dubai World Cup night? Have they found their runners yet?
Ginge Nicholls and Smith didn’t take away horses that were in training in Britain and had bright futures ahead for their owners and trainers. Godolphin do exactly that. Nicholls and Smith pick up unknowns (and thats what they are to most of us over here) from France. There is a huge difference between the two IMO.
When Henrietta Knight (for example) runs a horse in a Novice hurdle and it wins by 25 lengths Nicholls and Smith don’t go and snatch it do they?
The anti Arab thing – I ain’t even going there.
They might be unknown to you Flash,
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Kauto Star had won the Group 3 Prix de Longchamp in May 04 on his final start in France.
Master Minded was unbeaten in his completed starts as a four year old before starting odds on in the Group 1 Prix Ferdinand Dufaure.
Hardly unknowns Flash.
So it is o.k. to take excellant prospects away from foreigners but not poor British trainers?
Ginge
They are total unknowns in terms of British racing. I think the situations are completely different. Perhaps its just me?
So if the bright prospects are unknown to you that makes it o.k. Great excuse Flash.
Ginge
Value Is EverythingIts not an excuse Ginge its just something I don’t like I don’t think its fair and I don’t think its right.
You don’t see Ballydoyle doing it the same way Godolphin do. Maybe they should concentrate on developing their own horses instead of stealing and usually wrecking everyone elses. If I were a trainer I’d be furious if they did it to me.
French jump racing is hardly the same as British flat racing in scale or in operation is it?
They’ve had three runners so far. .
I’d say they have been seriously underperforming for years, Librettist.
….and even if we are talking recent form, what about the debacle that was Dubai World Cup night? Have they found their runners yet?
Godolphin were in very good form earlier in the year at Nad El Sheba. But not at the World Cup meeting and since.
Many yards have a certain time of year they are in good form or poor form.
Sir Mark, Fanshawe, Treggonig are all usually better in the summer months. Godolphin may be (these days) the same. Though it can’t help bringing horses from hot and dry to cold and wet.Anyone know if they have done any better when the British spring has been warmer and dryer?
Ginge
Value Is EverythingIts not an excuse Ginge its just something I don’t like I don’t think its fair and I don’t think its right.
You don’t see Ballydoyle doing it the same way Godolphin do. Maybe they should concentrate on developing their own horses instead of stealing and usually wrecking everyone elses. If I were a trainer I’d be furious if they did it to me.
French jump racing is hardly the same as British flat racing in scale or in operation is it?If I was a trainer and selling a horse to Godolphin for an over-inflated price ensured my owner would then have more money to spend the following season, I would see the positives.
It’s easy to knock their buying power, but the sums of money being offered are usually in excess of the market value of the horse in question. It’s business, sadly.
Its not an excuse Ginge its just something I don’t like I don’t think its fair and I don’t think its right.
You don’t see Ballydoyle doing it the same way Godolphin do. Maybe they should concentrate on developing their own horses instead of stealing and usually wrecking everyone elses. If I were a trainer I’d be furious if they did it to me.
French jump racing is hardly the same as British flat racing in scale or in operation is it?
French racing has not the scale but the quality is there. Or should that be was, since the Brits buy up most of the good prospects. Baracouda etc. are top quality. Can’t believe you think it is unfair to buy and send Fast Company elsewhere but perfectly o.k. for Master Minded.
Coolmore do do the same. Hurricane Run! Oh, sorry, he was French so that does not count.
What’s the betting Thewayyouare and Gagnoa end up with Aiden? They are French too Flash so you probably have not heard of them either. Sorry, may be coming on too strong, but in the same way you don’t think Godolphin are being fair, I don’t think you are being fair when there have been others doing the same thing without your criticism.Ginge
Value Is EverythingGreat posts Gingertipster….Godolphin might have their faults but if people are willing to sell their horses whats the problem? Its not as if there is a gun put to their head.
What Sheikh Mo does (buying other peoples horses) is absolutely no different to what Paul Nicholls will be doing in the next few months…going to France with more money than anyone else and buying whatever he likes. There is nothing wrong with that.
Thanks Aidan.
When Robert Sangster was number 1 he sent all the best bloodstock to the USA or Ireland. Coolmore quite rightly send theirs to Ireland.
Thank God for Sheikh Mohammed.
He should be more popular than he and his family are with British punters. He came in to sponser Channel 4 racing to keep racing on terrestrial TV.
Set up the Racing Post.
I have reservations about some things he does, sure, but over all, we are very lucky to have him.
Ginge
Value Is EverythingCoolmore don’t do it on anywhere near the Scale that Godolphin have.
Yet.
Value Is EverythingMost wealthy people buy good horses if they can afford it.The only big buyer that seems to buy just to keep trainers going is JP.He never moves the horses he buys so the trainers love to see him coming.He must be putting thousands into small yards without expecting much in return. It is most unusual.His contribution to racing at the grass roots level is enormous.How many small owners has he made rich?
A few points.
Is paying over the market price good for the market?
Coolmore seem to ad value to the horses they buy.
The Godolfin operation seems scattered. What is their goal?
Coolmore are in the business of making money, that helps everyone stay focused.Imagine a time when Chelsea, funded by a billionaire business tycoon, decided to buy up all of the best players in the world to form an ‘ubersquad’ of two-hundred top class talents. Now think about the fact that only eleven can play at any one time, and that whilst they’re doing very little the rest are failing to live up to their potential.
Is that something that would thrill football fans?
I agree that people buying talented horses isn’t a problem in itself, but it becomes so when a) the person doing the buying considers money to be no object and will snap up everything which looks half decent, and b) the horses taken out of their stables, which they wouldn’t necessarily have been if purchased by different people, fail to perform in the future.
Godolphin’s policies simply do not work, whether it be the travelling to and from Dubai or the methods of Saeed Bin Suroor himself. Their basic philosophy no longer revolves around horseracing being a sport that is in their blood, but instead around money and power. And as long as that continues to be true, Godolphin and Sheikh Mohammed will be nothing but a disappointing pain in the a*se in my eyes.
Thats overly cynical LGR. They have the money and power anyway and have never struck me as bullies..as such. Have always struck me as having great respect for the structure of the game which they have sought to augment rather than disrupt
I think the key to it is its almost panic buying. Because of relatively ordinary results with their own developed stock they are taking the short cut to attempt to maintain their profile. Understandable perhaps but not addressing the underlying problems..whatever they are
As an aside, i am well pleased to see chelsea outbid and scupper the chances of previously (and still) arrogant clubs (remeber the "big five"?) and love the sound of squealing from the said clubs supporters
Imagine a time when Chelsea, funded by a billionaire business tycoon, decided to buy up all of the best players in the world to form an ‘ubersquad’ of two-hundred top class talents. Now think about the fact that only eleven can play at any one time, and that whilst they’re doing very little the rest are failing to live up to their potential.
Is that something that would thrill football fans?
I agree that people buying talented horses isn’t a problem in itself, but it becomes so when a) the person doing the buying considers money to be no object and will snap up everything which looks half decent, and b) the horses taken out of their stables, which they wouldn’t necessarily have been if purchased by different people, fail to perform in the future.
Godolphin’s policies simply do not work, whether it be the travelling to and from Dubai or the methods of Saeed Bin Suroor himself. Their basic philosophy no longer revolves around horseracing being a sport that is in their blood, but instead around money and power. And as long as that continues to be true, Godolphin and Sheikh Mohammed will be nothing but a disappointing pain in the a*se in my eyes.
Would agree with that 100% LGR, Sheikh Mohammed has done many good things for racing but its his buying up and ruining of horses that gets my goat. For me Fast Company was probably the most exciting 2yo of last year, and there is absolutely no doubt in my mind whatsoever that he would have went off very short in the guineas and run well if he was still with Brian Meehan. Hopefully Fast Company makes it to the Poulains alive and well.
I dont really think that you can compare Godolphin with Clive Smith or coolmore as Coolmore actually won an irish derby, an arc, a tattersalls gold cup and a king george with hurricane run, and then he made it to stud, and Clive Smith has won bundles with Kauto and Masterminded.
The best horses sheikh mohammed has had in training in recent years are the one that he left in training with peter chapple hyam last year, and the one that is with jim bolger at the minute. Most of the ones to go to godolphin have instantly trained of or in some cases died like Electrocutionist (the last good horse to run in blue).
One reason for coolmores success is IMO their investment in good stock and their sticking largely to the northern dancer line (which many breeding people with a long term view will not be fans of), and in recent seasons especially having a large number of danehills has been a key to their domination of group races. Sheihk Mohammed has looked to have made some good decisions to buy up teofilo, authorized, shamardal refused to bend etc and I would fancy them to do well at stud, There is also the aspect that AOB is a very good trainer and is rather consistent as such.
I dont often see good prices on godolphin hosres, they put one out in a handicap, maiden or listed race and it will be shorter than it should be.
They have a habit of pitching Dettori against McKevoy in maidens later in the season, and it’s usually the second-strong that comes out on top (hence decent enough prices can be had).
they IMO tried to set up their own racing industry,creating another world of racing in the hope they would take over from Europe and America as the fore-bearer of horse racing.
vast amounts of prize money and the best facilities anyone could offer is available and many take up the offer of running their horses at Dubai but it is just for the prize money, a Derby or Breeders winner will always rank above any Dubai cup in history and nostalgia.
You can buy many things but not history.
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