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The pja gingertipster IMHO were defending the weighing room culture which is at the heart of the matter. By asking for it to be dropped they gave the impression oftrying to make it all go away which was clearly ridiculous given the coverage the story has had. Too many folk looking at making this an issue that’s divisive. What’s on trial here is weighing room culture in the modern world not necessarily dunne.
The fact frost feels totally ostracised is by far the worst element of this case. If you speak out you are punished. Not a good look on any organisation. This case could have huge consequences whichever way it goes. What McCoy and Johnson have done is shine a light on folk ignoring terrible behaviour which has genuinely shocked me as I assumed they would have been all over it as senior jockeys. Just a hugely disappointing and depressing episode and the worst I felt about racing in my 40 odd years of watching it bar of course the mistreatment or drugging of horses.
Be very interesting to see how things will be after this as I fancy bryony frost wont be too slow in coming forward if the I’ll feeling continues. Rant over. Away for a lie down.Is there any evidence that Bryony leaked the report to David Walsh Ginger?
It could have come from various sources. And if it hadn’t been leaked hie long would it have taken the BHA to have set up this hearing. It had already been a year.
With regards to the PJA – if they wanted the case dropped then what would they have done or not done to try to address this issue themselves if it was dropped?
When it is jockey’s on either side of a case would it not be a conflict of interest on the PJA’s part? As asking for the case to be dropped on the grounds of the leaked info impacting the potential for a fair trial would be the PJA acting in Dunne’s best interest but by the very same token it clearly wouldn’t be acting in Bryony’s best interest.
If the weighing room had policed it correctly and somebody senior to Dunne had pulled him up at the time of the very first incident and said his behaviour is unacceptable and actually got the two together to have a civilised conversation about the issue where Dunne could have put his concerns to Bryony then maybe (a monumentally big maybe) all this wouldn’t have escalated to where we are now but the fact that nobody came to her defense or even approached her to ask if she was ok or even thought for a second there was an issue to police clearly shows that they aren’t capable of doing it.
Mickey,
You’ve just proven the pja right about why Dunne can not get a fair hearing after it’s gone public..
Because you’ve written a long piece about what the case is according to you about – anything and everything it seems… except Robbie Dunne.
“Weighing Room Culture
The coverage the story has had
Fact Frost feels absolutely ostracised is by far the worst element of the case
If you speak out you are punished”.
etc etc
yet…
“Not necessarily Dunne”So Dunne is essentially a passenger in this Frost Vs Dunne case?
Dunne is effectively on trial here and yet whether he gets a fair hearing doesn’t matter to you. He can be sacrificed for the greater good.That is not justice and is exactly why the PJA said he can’t get a fair hearing.
Value Is EverythingWhat did you mean in your post from 16:32 re Frost “going public”, Ginger? Appreciate you did not say she was responsible for the leak.
I was trying to think back to how the public first learned of the issues. I recall she made some vague comments in the media about problems she faced late in 2020, but can’t recall her doing anything more explicit than that.
I guess you could look at that as a calculated action designed to draw in inquisitive journalists, or equally someone who was frustrated or distressed simply expressing themselves, or indeed both.
“When it is jockey’s on either side of a case would it not be a conflict of interest on the PJA’s part”?
No conflict of interest.
They just ask two questions:
Is going ahead in the interests of Frost? Very probably. OK
Is going ahead in the interests of Dunne? Very definitely not, he is unlikely to get a fair hearing now it’s gone public. Therefore PJA were right to ask for the “trial” to be stopped.Value Is Everything
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Maybe this could have been sorted out with Jimmy giving a good slap/talking to-to the odious Dunne. Instead of encouraging his daughter to try to sort it out with him?
*Any kids looking in, please note that violence is rarely the answer*
I see Robbie dunne is riding a horse on Friday called pretty little liar
Feels a bit deliberate that horse is running
Appears to be trained by a relative
Clearly a conflict because its the same organisation who are purportedly supporting both of their ‘opposing’ clients in the same case.
If you come out publically to state that one of your clients won’t get a fair hearing because of previously leaked reports and as a result the whole case should be dropped (which is the right position to take from Dunne’s standpoint to be fair) then how can you be fully supporting your other client (Frost) who wants to proceed with the case being heard because of what she has (and continues) to endure for simply speaking up.
I must confess I don’t recall whether I heard the PJA state publically what their actual position was in regards to Bryony’s side of things, only that Dunne wouldn’t get a fair hearing now and then referred back to the new code of conduct they brought in for their members in May, which they expect them to abide by….
They seem to talk a good game about wanting their sport to ‘welcome everyone’ but this weighing room culture is not a new thing just coming to light (former jockeys within the PJA would know full well what went on), these attitudes/behaviours have been ingrained into jockeys for many many years and had Bryony not taken these steps I am pretty sure the status quo would have remained in place……truth be told I am not convinced that when all the dust settles things will change all that much, it may have an effect of closing the ranks even more with an us against the world siege type mentality taking over.
Exactly. If you want the case dropped you are essentially negating frosts complaints. It’s the pja who caused yet another issue which has no doubt split the weighing room even more. How many owners will now think twice about investing in horses when they hear the sport is run so badly and out of touch. Willie mullins showed real class in offering a ride in the big race. Everybody has to get on with their lives after this. Maybe a few taking some extreme views should maybe for once think long term. We can see what polarisation has done to the UK and USA in politics. Its poisoned it beyond repair IMHO. Please don’t let it happen to racing.
The PJA only have one question regarding each of their members.
Is the hearing fair?
For Frost the answer is yes, more than fair.
For Dunne the answer is no, definitely not.Therefore the PJA had to ask for the case to be dropped.
Not asking for it to be dropped would have been taking sides.
If it were fair for Dunne and unfair on Frost they would just as easily have asked for it to be dropped.
No conflict of interest in the only thing they could do..
PJA are not the ones in charge of either defence team or the hearing / “trial” itself, they’re just a union.Value Is Everything“What did you mean in your post from 16:32 re Frost “going public”, Ginger? Appreciate you did not say she was responsible for the leak”.
Fair question Marlingford.
If Frost didn’t “go public” herself then it is pretty obvious someone went public who was acting or thought he / she was acting on Bryony’s behalf. Whether Bryony knew about it or not. Therefore it is only natural for many Racing insiders to blame Bryony and / or Bryony’s (official and unofficial) team for the initial resultant bad publicity Racing gets. Albeit I personally believe this may be worth it in the long term, might not be what those involved are thinking right now… And certainly not best for many individuals caught up in this. It has become more than Frost Vs Dunne and was bound to do so in a public setting.Many people within Racing are bound to think Frost Vs Dunne could have been settled in a private hearing, with everything else that came out of that private hearing being put right afterwards. Without the inevitable public glare, without Racing people (at least what the public think) taking sides, without valets needing to think they have to publicly support their colleague by refusing to valet for Frost, without so many jockeys being thought of by the public as sexist misogynists etc etc.
Again, am only trying to put myself in their situation; not necessarily my own personal thoughts.
Value Is EverythingHad the pja and the bha dealt with it then it never would have got to this stage. It’s shown the bha and pja are not fit for purpose. Harsh but true. You do not let this fester for over a year in any other organisation. The outcome of the case is a sideshow. The main thing now is to make both bodies work properly. The culture in the weighing room has to change. There is no going back or we will just get more totally bad publicity and less focus on the actual racing.
“You do not let this fester for over a year in any other organisation.”
But it does. I have served on more disciplinary and grievance panels in work than I care to remember. A very common theme is a lot of the cases could and should have been nipped in the bud at the outset by decisive management action. This would have saved a huge amount of trouble. Unfortunately, there are lots of weak and terrible managers out there.
Totally agree mickeyjp. I’m still astonished that according to Chris Cook in the post, on at least one day in the Freddie Tylicki court case there was only him and a reporter from the BBC in attendance; where were the BHA and PJA?
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