- This topic has 520 replies, 60 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 1 month ago by
.
- Posts
It takes a lot of bravery to do what bryony has done. To go against any clique means being ostracised. As for her being hard work I’m sure Lester and ap McCoy were a barrels of laughs.Not.Just gets worse and worse.Even Mr controversial matt Chapman has bodyswerved the issue. They know they need to toe the line or else. Shocking and incredibly sad in equal measure.
I am not defending the weighing room culture but I wonder if part of the problem here is jockeys as a group are generally not very bright or observant.
You see this in trivial things like track bias. At Newcastle last week it was clearly and advantage to be along the stands rail, yet many jockeys (including some drawn next to the rail) persisted in launching their challenges down the middle of the track when the disadvantage of doing so was obvious to any observer with a pair of eyes and a brain.
A group of not very bright, not very observant men would probably not recognise bullying if it was right in front of their face. To them, it is not unusual behaviour. It sounds like the sort of laddish, canteen room culture the police were condemned for in the Macpherson Report.
The fact that a culture of silence and never complain about anyone exists is a green light for bullies to thrive.
I am not in the least bit surprised about McCoy’s attitude and not especially surprised about Johnson either.
Even if Frost wins her case, it looks like the atmosphere is going to be very unpleasant. I worked in such an environment a few years ago and it grinds you down. I would like to think it will all be resolved and everyone can just move on but I am not hopeful.
Sorry, Cork. There will be no winners coming from this case. True, they are not very bright at all, though in that particular case (Tylicky/Gibbons) they seem to have a pretty bright memory.
The only one who seems a bit different is Ruby, imo.
By the way, Dunne’s tweet about Yala Enki and his failed attempt to defend himself were just too stupid to be true…… A jockey like him should never come close to a weighing room nor sit on a horse.
All jockeys are not stupid, just one or two… just like any other profession.
Not surprising that some jockeys – especially older and / or ex jockeys – have stuck with their valets…
When a jockey has had a long working relationship and even friendship with his / her valet… Can see why they’d be extremely reticent about ruining a valet’s life / livelihood for what that valet thought (wrongly perhaps) was a humorous and / or heated remark that lasted a few seconds. Words that have been used on others before without them taking so much offence.There’s also probably a feeling of Bryony being wrong to have gone public and cast everyone as sexist / mysogenistic… when she should’ve waited for the internal enquiry (however late that enquiry was.
Personally – from what I’ve heard – hope Dunne gets done, but the above is just me wondering why most jockeys / racing insiders seemed to have reacted the way they have. Not that I particularly agree with it.
Value Is EverythingWhy should the weighing room be any different from any other workplace. The fact the pja wanted the case dropped shows they are incapable of self policing as they laughably put it. No workplace should be like that. Managers can’t scream out players anymore. Fergie wouldn’t get away with his hairdrying treatment anymore. I’m not saying it’s right as sometimes some people need a rocket up their derriere but it’s 2021 folks.
What this case has highlighted is the total ineptitude of the bha. Had they actually dealt with this case then the horrendous publicity could have been avoided. Just constantly repeated it was ongoing won’t wash. They need someone to handle pr as they look like a particularly old out of touch club.“The fact the pja wanted the case dropped shows they are incapable of self policing”
Not necessarily Mickey.
As I understand it the PJA wanted the case closed because they believed it would be impossible for one of their members to get a fair trial. They were only acting as any union. tbh Don’t blame them in that respect. They were not taking sides in Frost Vs Dunne as you seem to suggest, or indeed suggesting they should have taken the other side – against one of their members.Value Is EverythingThat’s what they said Ginger, as it’s the least bad-sounding reason.
Why wouldn’t there be a fair trial if the issue was out in the open though? The evidence put before the panel, who we have to assume will be of sound mind and impartial, is still the same evidence.
If the issue had not become public it would all have been hushed up, which I suspect is exactly what the PJA would like.
In these times it is entirely possible this panel will be influenced by public opinion… Which means Dunne can be thought to be in danger of not getting a fair hearing.
There is no evidence to suggest this case would not have eventually been heard.
Value Is EverythingThere is little doubt in my mind that an under-pressure BHA will be influenced by public opinion and Dunne will be hung out to dry.
However, even if Frost has exploited the situation and played the victim a bit, I still have no sympathy for Dunne.
Racing needs to enter the 21st century from top to bottom and this might just be the catalyst for it.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Does anyone know who is actually in charge of the weighing/changing room at the course , surely if such things are as quoted a ” regular occurrence ” then who should be stepping and managing it , football has referees is now time for someone to do similar , it looks like the stewards are doing little , as for the valets treatment of frost , it’s at best petty at worst downright disgusting , I hope Frost has as little to do with them as poss going forward
Pick 3 on Saturday champion 2025/2026
I think many of us have been bullied in the workplace at one time or another and I bet no one has got anywhere with complaining about it.
Spot on there and worse than not getting the matter resolved you are thereafter marked down as a “troublemaker” and overlooked for promotion etc.
I’d be interested to hear whether R Johnson et al would think it was ok if a black jockey was on the receiving end of a racial slur during “the heat of the moment” “one or twice a season”.
OK Ginger and Ian, that is a fair point that Dunne’s hearing could be influenced by public sentiment. But I’m still very sceptical that is the sole reason the PJA wanted it to go away.
I’m also not convinced Frost has exploited things and played the victim (I know you aren’t saying she definitely has!). Her complaints seem entirely reasonable to me based on the evidence currently in the public domain.
The issue has polarised debate and I like to make it clear that, while I am siding with Frost, I am not blind to the possibility she has sensed an opportunity to create an environment where no one dares say a word to her about anything going forwards.
Tbh it’s the sort of Machiavellian trick I’d be suggesting were I advising her!
But don’t get me wrong, Dunne and that whole male-dominated weighing room culture wants burying once and for all.
If Frost and her PR team have been a bit ruthless in going about achieving that, that’s fine by me!
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Agree it’s wise not to rule anything out Ian, especially with lawyers and publicists involved.
But there’s plenty to suggest she has a justified complaint. I’m therefore assuming her actions are largely in “good faith” unless evidence emerges to the contrary.
Interview with Harry Cobden from The Times 26 December 2020:
“…it is clear that Cobden does not envy Frost’s profile one bit.
“She’s obviously done well out of the cameras,” he says. “They like her and it’s got her career going. Paul’s put her on nice horses.
“If the cameras weren’t involved would she have gone as far as she has? I don’t know. But she has managed it really well, especially last year because Bryony Frost was the face of jump racing.”
Cobden would rather have a quiet life. “Some people like to see themselves on TV but it doesn’t do it for me,” he says…”
This is faint praise indeed from a fellow stable jockey with whom Frost once had a relationship. It wouldn’t come as a major surprise if this view of Bryony is widely shared in the weighing room. Robbie Dunne would certainly agree.
The jockeys therefore may have at least three problems with Bryony Frost as we speak, namely (1) she doesn’t keep straight at a fence (2) her media appearances are not appreciated and (3) she has broken the Jockeys Code Of Silence. These opinions aren’t going to change any time soon, and I can see the weighing room developing a siege mentality irrespective of the result of the current inquiry.
The future looks bleak for Bryony.
In individual elite sport – golf and tennis spring to mind – I am sure there are top players with not one friend in the locker room who don’t care one bit.
Your fellow competitors won’t even speak to you, but the public adore you and you are successful.
I’d take that.
Wouldn’t you?
I am sure Frost will.
“No one (in the weighing room) likes me, but guess what? The public adore me so I….don’t….CARE.”
It’s Dunne facing a bleak future, not Frost.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Bryony is in many ways jumping’s Frankie.
People love she’s the media’s angel.
People love the smile that lights up (insert course).
People love her outgoing personality.
People love being able to show her enjoying winning.
…And – Well, not like Frankie but even better than Frankie – she’s a “girl” in a (supposedly) man’s sport.…And I am no different.
I love Bryony too for all those reasons and most importantly because she’s a very good jockey.…And Dunne is so easy to dislike and is a crap jockey.
However, in this particular case got to keep an open mind.
Value Is Everything
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.