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Coronation Cup 2023

Home Forums Big Races – Discussion Coronation Cup 2023

Viewing 16 posts - 52 through 67 (of 67 total)
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  • #1649927
    Avatar photoGladiateur
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    Agree with the rest of you: Hornby is oblivious to Emily Upjohn making her move and has been caught napping by Dettori. By the time he’s got Westover going, the bird has flown.

    It’s a sad indictment of the standard of British racing journalism that neither ITV nor Racing TV has (as far as I have seen) picked up on this. They’re just fawning over the winner.

    #1649928
    Avatar photoCork All Star
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    The racing hacks only criticise foreign jockeys who they do not encounter every day or apprentices who cannot fight back.

    #1649929
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    • Total Posts 12996

    100% CAS – an aspect of the U.K. racing media that had remained unchanged throughout my adult lifetime.

    Not the best ride around Epsom once more from the train set, but that filly has shown some turn of foot.

    As for Westover, the Geoffrey Freer and the St Simon Stakes have got his name written on both of them.

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    #1649930
    Mike007
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    I think Emily Upjohn would’ve beaten Westover today even if he went earlier. And i say that as a Westover backer.

    #1649932
    FinalFurlong91
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    I’d agree Mike

    Frankie would’ve just had a lead longer

    She was the best horse on the day

    #1649936
    Avatar photoCork All Star
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    “Not the best ride around Epsom once more from the train set, but that filly has shown some turn of foot.”

    Perhaps it wasn’t but I think some of the criticism Hornby has received here and elsewhere is a little harsh. To my mind he has not got beaten on a horse that should have won.

    #1649937
    Avatar photoGladiateur
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    That’s irrelevant, CAS. Emily Upjohn may well have been the best horse on the day, but Hornby has just been caught napping and deserves criticism for not being aware of what was going on around him, especially in such a small field.

    It’s akin to Dettori watching his nearest rivals and being oblivious to Tuesday on the far side of the pack in last year’s Oaks.

    #1649938
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    I take that point Glad. But a ride where a jockey gets beaten on one that should or could have won is worse.

    Emily Upjohn is a genuinely Group 1 horse. I am not convinced Westover is. Excuses were made for him after the Derby as well but to my mind he lacks the tactical speed to be truly effective at the top level.

    #1649959
    Avatar photoGladiateur
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    Watch the Derby again: he was clearly unlucky in running.

    Westover is by no means a superstar but, with better rides, he would have finished at worst second in last year’s Derby and would have given Emily Upjohn more of a race today.

    If he turns up for the Irish St Leger, he’ll take an awful lot of beating.

    #1649965
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    Fair enough Glad. I can see him winning that Group 1. But not a strong Group 1 over 1m 4f – he is not good enough.

    #1649966
    Avatar photoGladiateur
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    • Total Posts 6621

    Agreed.

    #1649974
    FinalFurlong91
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    I’d say for him to win a strong group 1 he’d need to be right on the pace and kick plenty early

    Otherwise he will keep getting done for a turn of foot

    He’s a long striding grinder, doesn’t have that instant acceleration that wins most of these small field group 1s

    Get him at the front and try to run the finish out of the faster horses

    #1649976
    Avatar photoTonge
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    Spot on FF. Much delight about “getting him to settle”. Better to stop fighting him and let him make the running.

    #1650015
    Avatar photoGingertipster
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    Problem with Westover is rather than a turn of foot like Emily Upjohn, he has the ability only for a prolonged run that takes time to build. Normally, this type might take a more prominent position or go for home from further out. Trouble with Westover doing that though is he also often pulls his chance away by being too free.

    Therefore, the jockey’s first job is to settle Westover and the easiest (possibly the only) way to do that is in behind other horses… And to be honest Hornby did a great job in doing that today.

    However, once in behind he’s then reliant on rivals going a fast enough pace in order to bring both his stamina in to play and lessen the chances of those with a turn of foot… especially on fast ground like today.

    If going prominent from the outset it would probably result in a rank racehorse, one that has no chance; so has little choice but to settle.

    Hornby settled Westover well and I got the impression turning for home he wanted a way out. But tbh I was a little surprised when getting a gap he didn’t go for home immediately to maximise his chance, instead of cruising up to the leader. So that was imo a mistake. I believe Murtagh did suggest this in his analysis.

    He then made ground in the final furlong when he was slowing down at less of a rate than Frankie, ie when stamina rather than speed was coming into play… all too late. However, the amount of ground lost in all probability didn’t make the difference between winning and losing.

    Westover may well be capable of a level of form that enables him to win a top top class group 1, it’s just pace-wise everything needs to go his way. Therefore will be more inconsistent and have less chance / fewer victories than many of his rating.

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    #1650019
    FinalFurlong91
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    Emily upjohn clocked a 10.52 in the 10th furlong

    That is very fast for a 1m4f horse

    The finishing speed % of 113 suggests they went slow and have sprinted home which wouldn’t have suited westover at all

    Do very much feel like I chose the wrong 1m4f horse for my 10 to follow seeing those sectionals

    #1650089
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    I don’t disagree with what anyone has written about Westover. But talk about needing everything to go right for him!

    There is only one group of people who like horses like him: the bookmakers.

    No doubt he will get backed next time as well and another excuse will get rolled out when something else beats him.

    It will be interesting to see if Hornby keeps the ride. Juddmonte like to use Moore or Dettori if either is available.

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