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So in one thread you decide to quote AP endlessly to support a stance on how good you think he is, yet we now choose to ignore AP and his after-race comments here? He wasn’t exactly positive.
Binocular is a good horse. A very good horse. Yet we’ve been waiting for a supposed repeat performance of his Champion win (Which it’s visual impression gives a false impression of his ability).Aren’t you doing exactly the same to support the opposite view?
True, AP wasn’t pleased with Binocular’s performance today, but when he ran much better to win the CH, you claim it an optical illusion.
Fwiw, I believe Binny ran well below his best, as was obvious from 2 out, but (partly thanks to AP’s brilliance) was still good enough to beat these. No doubt, PN will persevere with Rock On Ruby as a CH horse, but I can’t see his namesake wanting to ride him.Binny was a pretty good Champion Hurdle winner, the form says so. But he’s had problems since and inconsistent / temperamental. Sometimes ruins his chance by sweating. I wouldn’t rate today’s performance any better than last year’s race. Overturn didn’t jump like we know he can and has had so many hard races in a short space of time.
The one to take out of it if you want to back anything for Cheltenham is Rock On Ruby. Possibly unlucky after missing the last and still improving. Probably do better with a greater test of stamina too.
Very doubtful Binny will ever get back to his Champion Hurdle winning standard.
Hurdygurdyman gets more like Fist every day.
Value Is EverythingSo in one thread you decide to quote AP endlessly to support a stance on how good you think he is, yet we now choose to ignore AP and his after-race comments here? He wasn’t exactly positive.
Binocular is a good horse. A very good horse. Yet we’ve been waiting for a supposed repeat performance of his Champion win (Which it’s visual impression gives a false impression of his ability).Aren’t you doing exactly the same to support the opposite view?
True, AP wasn’t pleased with Binocular’s performance today, but when he ran much better to win the CH, you claim it an optical illusion.
Fwiw, I believe Binny ran well below his best, as was obvious from 2 out, but (partly thanks to AP’s brilliance) was still good enough to beat these. No doubt, PN will persevere with Rock On Ruby as a CH horse, but I can’t see his namesake wanting to ride him.I was just using it to highlight his own contradiction. I already have my own opinion formed, and am not going to base it on one comment here or there.
I claim his win to be a false representation of his ability. Look at those behind him? Khyber Kim had been bitterly disappointing with Henderson, and bitterly disappointing since Aintree that year. Celestial Halo is an admirable horse who probably hasn’t got the recognition he perphaps deserves, but again, isn’t a vintage 2 Miler Hurdler. Zaynar has since gone on to do absolutely nothing over Hurdlers, whilst the 5th was Starluck. The following year none of these horses exactly set the 2 Mile scene on fire. Unless they all suddenly lost form the next year, it’s difficult to categorize this as a particularly good renewal.
I assume Rock on Ruby will also head down the 2 Mile path, and if i had to back either at bigger prices it would be Rock on Ruby. Not that i think he’s going to win a Champion Hurdle, but a place is certainly plausible.
I suspect that what Mr Nicholls took from today is that Zarkandar is the most over-priced horse in the CH
Don’t talk shyte mate he’s beaten Overturn twice as far as he did last year on a track that doesn’t really suit him. Rock on Ruby was the best horse in the race but Binocular never ran up to his level. What utter tripe!!! He may not win another Champion but he’s run as well if not better in that race as any race he ever has pre Cheltenham. If Binocular never ran up to form why on earth would you even consider backing Rockon Ruby to win the Champion Hurdle? makes no sense to me
So in one thread you decide to quote AP endlessly to support a stance on how good you think he is, yet we now choose to ignore AP and his after-race comments here? He wasn’t exactly positive.
That’s the norm with Fist, waste of time arguing, really is. Totally given up because he has an answer for everything. And they usually last about 500 words. He’s just a jackhammer, constantly grinding away at you. It’s good that you’re young, because you’ll need stamina to keep up with him until you do what everyone else does eventually, which is just to give up and let him think whatever he wants to think, no matter how deluded.
The only twice I have ever found Binocular impressive while beating decent opposite were when he was 4, beating Celestial Halo at Aintree and Ascot. Rest of the time he’s been ordinary IMO, that’s just looking at the bare form of the races he’s been in and how he’s performed.
By the way, Fist. Do you like any horses in training other than those trained by Nicky Henderson?
I claim his win to be a false representation of his ability. Look at those behind him? Khyber Kim had been bitterly disappointing with Henderson, and bitterly disappointing since Aintree that year. Celestial Halo is an admirable horse who probably hasn’t got the recognition he perphaps deserves, but again, isn’t a vintage 2 Miler Hurdler. Zaynar has since gone on to do absolutely nothing over Hurdlers, whilst the 5th was Starluck. The following year none of these horses exactly set the 2 Mile scene on fire. Unless they all suddenly lost form the next year, it’s difficult to categorize this as a particularly good renewal.
J17,
Khyber Kim improved throughout that season. Winning Greatwood and International prior to his excellent second in the Champion Hurdle. And impressive 5 length winner (admittedly from a comparitively poor field) on his next start at Aintree.
Had 2 1/4 lengths to spare over Celestial Halo in the International, who was giving KK 4 lbs. But CH had won the Elite impressively, in a fast time on his previous start and only been touched off by Punjabi in the Champion itself the previous year. Punjabi finishing fourth in the International, one place in front of Medermit; one of the best novice chasers of last term.
Khyber Kim was old for a hurdler at 8, and it was no surprise that after injury he could not recapture that form. It could not have been easy getting Khyber Kim to show anything. Henderson won one novice in cracking style before dissapointing and disappearing from the radar. Twister deserves a great deal of credit for getting a whole season out of him.Zaynar had come up through the ranks, winning the Triumph the previous year. Part of a run of 5 straight wins before a defeat at 1/14 immediately prior to the Champion. Had/has a hell of a lot of ability, trouble is he’s also got a lot of temperament. Something that got in the way of his subsequent career. Not until a change of tactics on his latest novice chase has Zaynar looked the same horse.
As said, Celestial Halo was top class, hence his close second in the previous year’s Champion. Binny beating him by 12 lengths is hardly poor Champion form. As for Starluck, he was beaten just a nose further. Came out on his next start to be just 1.25 lengths behind Peddlers Cross in the Fighting Fifth. Before a third to Binny in his only subsequent hurdle start at Kempton. Beaten only half as far as Cheltenham.
I would have thought what Khyber Kim did prior to and after finishing second to Binny, proved the Champion form very good. Though not as good as Hurricane Fly.
Value Is EverythingAfter Binocular’s previous run, I did say how I thought Messrs Henderson and McCoy were more than likey keeping something in reserve until Boxing Day. I was ridiculed in some quarters.
However, I was proved absolutely spot on in that thinking. Didn’t take a genius to work it out. McCoy didn’t lift his whip at all in the previous encounter with Overturn, whereas he got deadly serious with it today, and saw off the McCain horse without too much trouble.
Rock On Ruby ran a fine race and I feel that horse can reverse placings with Binocular at Cheltenham.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Binny was a pretty good Champion Hurdle winner, the form says so. But he’s had problems since and inconsistent / temperamental. Sometimes ruins his chance by sweating. I wouldn’t rate today’s performance any better than last year’s race. Overturn didn’t jump like we know he can and has had so many hard races in a short space of time.
The one to take out of it if you want to back anything for Cheltenham is Rock On Ruby. Possibly unlucky after missing the last and still improving. Probably do better with a greater test of stamina too.
Very doubtful Binny will ever get back to his Champion Hurdle winning standard."
I’d pretty much agree with that only to add that Binny looks like he isn’t happy when he’s being asked a question. Maybe it’s just his action, but it looks like he’s feeling something/in pain. It’s certainly not fluid as it was when he was at his best.
There is NO WAY he’ll win a Champion again – patently on the downgrade IMHO as I also think Overturn has not run his race. Rock on Ruby won’t be good enough for the Champion but I’d rather be on him coming up the hill!
This is your last hurrah, HurdyGurdyBurdy.
Zip
Don’t talk shyte mate he’s beaten Overturn twice as far as he did last year on a track that doesn’t really suit him. Rock on Ruby was the best horse in the race but Binocular never ran up to his level. What utter tripe!!! He may not win another Champion but he’s run as well if not better in that race as any race he ever has pre Cheltenham. If Binocular never ran up to form why on earth would you even consider backing Rockon Ruby to win the Champion Hurdle? makes no sense to me
So in one thread you decide to quote AP endlessly to support a stance on how good you think he is, yet we now choose to ignore AP and his after-race comments here? He wasn’t exactly positive.
That’s the norm with Fist, waste of time arguing, really is. Totally given up because he has an answer for everything. And they usually last about 500 words. He’s just a jackhammer, constantly grinding away at you. It’s good that you’re young, because you’ll need stamina to keep up with him until you do what everyone else does eventually, which is just to give up and let him think whatever he wants to think, no matter how deluded.
The only twice I have ever found Binocular impressive while beating decent opposite were when he was 4, beating Celestial Halo at Aintree and Ascot. Rest of the time he’s been ordinary IMO, that’s just looking at the bare form of the races he’s been in and how he’s performed.
By the way, Fist. Do you like any horses in training other than those trained by Nicky Henderson?
Yep deluded into saying Binocular would win Deluded into saying Grand Crus would win and Deluded into saying Kauto Star would win and backing him almost every day since the Betfair when incidentally I also said he would win.
There must be a little chance I like one or two that Nicky doesn’t trained mate maybe you can guess the name of one.
On the King George thread, HurdyGurdyBurdy, you seem to have selected 4 runners as the winner of the race. I don’t mind you selecting half the field, but for tipping purposes could you put them in the order you fancy them please?
Zip
J17,
Khyber Kim improved throughout that season. Winning Greatwood and International prior to his excellent second in the Champion Hurdle. And impressive 5 length winner (admittedly from a comparitively poor field) on his next start at Aintree.
Had 2 1/4 lengths to spare over Celestial Halo in the International, who was giving KK 4 lbs. But CH had won the Elite impressively, in a fast time on his previous start and only been touched off by Punjabi in the Champion itself the previous year. Punjabi finishing fourth in the International, one place in front of Medermit; one of the best novice chasers of last term.
Khyber Kim was old for a hurdler at 8, and it was no surprise that after injury he could not recapture that form. It could not have been easy getting Khyber Kim to show anything. Henderson won one novice in cracking style before dissapointing and disappearing from the radar. Twister deserves a great deal of credit for getting a whole season out of him.He had a very good season no doubt, and we must give tremendous credit to Twiston-Davies for training him in such a successful season.
It’s difficult to truely assess him i guess due to the relative lakc of high class performances outside of one year. Measuring any race through Khyber Kim seems to have its perils.
I think what the rest of competition had won that year is rather redundant, if you already have the notion that the division was weak that year. It doesn’t really matter what races the other 4 behind had won, because the division itself was pretty weak IMO. Celestial Halo is a very good horse, but i’d struggle to create an argument/thesis to suggest he should be winning champion hurdles or being closely placed. He was beaten by Mille Chief last year (admittedly perhaps unlucky).
Zaynar had come up through the ranks, winning the Triumph the previous year. Part of a run of 5 straight wins before a defeat at 1/14 immediately prior to the Champion. Had/has a hell of a lot of ability, trouble is he’s also got a lot of temperament. Something that got in the way of his subsequent career. Not until a change of tactics on his latest novice chase has Zaynar looked the same horse.
The Triump Zaynar won didn’t really work out. Obviously Walkon never really got the opportunity to truely show his Hurdling ability due to injury and is now chasing, but no 4 year old from that year has progressed into a Top 2 Mile candidate if recall.
He’s a talented horse, and i agree that he has a temparament, but his win/run ratio since that shock defeat has been awful and he has actually never beaten anything of note outside of Novice Division. The hype all came from beating Karabak at Ascot, which hasn’t really worked out. He was eventually tried in the World Hurdle last year ; which sums up where his career has ended. Certainly we aren’t going to be able to build a credible argument for a strong Champion Hurdle through Zaynar
As said, Celestial Halo was top class, hence his close second in the previous year’s Champion. Binny beating him by 12 lengths is hardly poor Champion form. As for Starluck, he was beaten just a nose further. Came out on his next start to be just 1.25 lengths behind Peddlers Cross in the Fighting Fifth. Before a third to Binny in his only subsequent hurdle start at Kempton. Beaten only half as far as Cheltenham.
I think Celestial Halo is a very good horse as said above. Though of course i also hold the view that the previous year (well two years, Katchit’s year was dire) was weak too.
I would have thought what Khyber Kim did prior to and after finishing second to Binny, proved the Champion form very good. Though not as good as Hurricane Fly.
Im not sure the form will ever be considered very good. Those who raced in the Champion that year have susbequently gone on to do ver very little. Undoubtedly some of those horses were very talented, but for whatever reason very little in terms of form has been re-produced.
Either way, it was good to be able to reply to ideas conveyed in a concise and thoughtful manner, rather than being trolled by Nicky Henderson!
I wish someone would show me a post when I last said Binny would win the Champion Hurdle again. I started the 2011 Champion Hurdle thread 10 months before the race clearly stating that I thought Hurricane Fly would win the race.
Anyone who thinks that wasn’t very close to Binocular’s best today doesn’t know the horse very well.
I include AP who should know that Binny hates Kempton and I wish I had a fiver for every time Nicky has said the course simply doesn’t suit the horse.
Go back to the day when Fitz said "He’ll win with his head in his chest today" before the Adonis.
Like today Binocular had gone only 1/2 mile and was off the bridle and never came back on it for the entire race. Like today he and a Paul Nichols horse Pierre something or another put lengths between themselves and the rest and that day I wish I had another fiver for everyone who said he’d never win a Champion Hurdle.
The reason Binocular came off the bridle so soon today wasn’t just the course it was that Overturn went a lot faster than he did last season as the ground was faster on average in every race compared to last year. Binocular himself was 3 seconds faster. That may not seem much but the fact Overturn was beaten so far this year was most likely because he’d gone even faster in the early part of the race than the time would suggest and burned himself out. They looked to be going hell for leather right from the start.
Binocular simply dislikes the place, add to that they all went a bit too fast for their own good and you get a very decent performance I would say.
Incidentally if any horse is going to benefit from a change to Cheltenham it’s Binocular. I saw no signs that Rock on Ruby travelled and less well than he has in any of his other races do I think assuming he’ll be the one who benefits most is assuming too much.
I thought that was a poor renewal today and don’t see any of the principals as being realistic contenders for the champion hurdle.
The fact is Binocular is a horse with physical problems and won yesterday despite being someway from his best. He won because of an excellent ride and because he only had to show 90% of his Champion Hurdle form to take this, he had that much in hand. If they could overcome his physical problems I think he could give Hurricane Fly a real examination in March but it is probably too much to hope for.
The beaten horses are well below the standard required to win the Champion Hurdle except in a very moderate year.Sorry but you lost me right at the start
What Physical problems are they? He suffers from allergies but they have never found anything physically wrong with the horse I am aware of.
Be glad to be corrected.
From the interview with AP before and after the race he implied that he felt there were some problems with the horse that were preventing him showing his true ability. If he suffers from allergies that affect his physical well-being then surely that is a physical problem?
Binocular simply dislikes the place, add to that they all went a bit too fast for their own good and you get a very decent performance I would say.
Incidentally if any horse is going to benefit from a change to Cheltenham it’s Binocular. I saw no signs that Rock on Ruby travelled and less well than he has in any of his other races do I think assuming he’ll be the one who benefits most is assuming too much.
For someone who believes Binny "simply dislikes the place", you were so xxxxxx confident going in to the race H.
If I thought a horse "simply dislikes the place", I’d look to back against it!
Value Is Everything
However, I was proved absolutely spot on in that thinking. Didn’t take a genius to work it out. 
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