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Clearly won? Cearly won??
Hmmm, for fist sake, get yourself along to Bangkok’s finest optician… and pronto ma old china !
If that’s not a dead heat, then I was a rubbish footballer back in the day.
TAPK has been known to sit on his throne commentating to himself during a race!I remember vividly saying to ones self."He"s getting backup,he"s getting back up,he has,he"s got up on the line,incredible" and then when the announcement was made that Kauto held on i remember saying "has he ****"! I remember it vividly i do! Just like when you know where you were when Princess Diana was tragically killed!It will stick in your memory,that one "Himself",you may need councelling!!
If that’s not a dead heat, then I was a rubbish footballer back in the day.
You weren"t by any chance the Goalkeeper for Rangers during the 1975 season?
He be talking fram da heart me thinks
Don’t forget I backed Denman at 8/1 and was about 1 in 50 who said he’d be back "H" so I’m not talking through my pocket.
Imperial Commander looked very comfortable at Haydock in the sense he wasn’t taken off his feet. I don’t feel that Denman has the pace to take either Kauto or Imperial Commander of their feet and if he can’t he hasn’t got the toe to beat either in a finish.
I’ve resigned myself to the fact Kauto is simply a far superior animal to Denman and no matter how you cut it Denman was much nearer his best in last years Gold Cup than Kauto wwas when Denman beat him. He beat Neptune roughly the same distance but Kauto turned the form round with Denman by 20 lengths. Even allowing for the setback that is some amount of ground Denman has to make up.
Denman hasnt the pace to take Kauto off his feet? Well he did in 2008 didn’t he? Where does this tripe come out of that Kauto wasnt at his best in 2008? Did PN say he was injured afterwards? No. He even ran him a few weeks later.
Kauto was at the hieght of his powers in 2008. His KG victory in that season was his most impressive run to date. Kauto simply could not jump or travel at the pace Denman asked him too that day in Chelenham. Denman ran the race to beat Kauto, and he will do likewise this year.
For those who will point to how close Neptune Collonges got to him, well that was NP at his very best. I believe he was far more suited to the gruelling test set by Denman than Kauto was.
People talk about this being the real decider between Kauto and Denman. Wrong. That race was run in 2008, and the result fell firmly in Denman’s favour. Last years race is irrelevant, as Denman was handled like a baby all the way round and was ridden for second. He wont be this year.
Denman didn’t ‘take them along’ until they headed out onto the second circuit, by which time Kauto had already made a series of jumping errors.
Kauto carried an injury after winning the Ascot Chase a month before the 2008 Gold Cup.
Neptune Collonges wouldn’t get near a "height of his powers" Kauto Star in a month of Sunday’s, unless they were racing over 3m4f+.
You do know your tripe though, I’ll give you that.
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The tripe ame form some guy called Ruby Walsh……he’s a jockey from Ireland who rode him I think……..He said "He just didn’t feel right today and wasn’t himself" "It could be he left hus race at Ascot I really don’t know but that wasn’t him" But hell what would he know
If you can’t tell the difference between a horse when he’s wrong and one that’s run a mile below his normal best then gawd love ya mate. BTW The only reason he ran at Haydock was greed and he was beaten by Old Vic at levels. The same Old Vic that couldnt get near him when he was right.
All you Denman fans are the same you twist things to suit. Are you trying to tell me that Neptune Collonges at his best was as good as Kauto Star? That’s absolute garbage…….or are you saying that his win in Hennessy when he beat Notre petre wasn’t as good as his win over Snowy Morning a year earlier?
What you are missing is it wasn’t Denman that had Kauto in trouble. He was struggling before Denman even made his move and anyone who can read a race could see that…..I may be a huge Kauto fan but having backed Deman to win 2 Hennessys and being one of the very few people who said "Rubbish" even when his most ardent fans said he was finished, I would say I qualify as a fan.
I even backed him last season for this seasons Gold Cup as I felt sure he was as good as ever and Kauto can’t go one forever.However at the end of the day the way I see it, we have two horses who both have a high cruising speed. No horse has even come close to to taking Kauto off the bridle when he’s been 100% and the difference between the two is Kauto can change gear quicker than any horse I have ever seen including Arkle himself. That’s what sets him apart from Denman and everything else.
Denman was full of running at the top of the Hill last season and nothing else could get near him. Even Ruby said he was abit worried when he came up a longside him but when he asked Kauto to quicken…….Think you know the rest.
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Snap Grassy
shaund10, kauto star is one of the best jumpers iv ever seen, and it doesn’t take a genius to see that he wasn’t 100% that day. He never jumped a fence and didnt travel a yard. It wasnt that Denman was going so fast that Kauto couldnt hack it, the horse has won 2 Tingle Creeks ffs. The 2 men above have said everything.
If that’s not a dead heat, then I was a rubbish footballer back in the day.
You weren"t by any chance the Goalkeeper for Rangers during the 1975 season?
No, but I did offer him counselling.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
If that’s not a dead heat, then I was a rubbish footballer back in the day.
You weren"t by any chance the Goalkeeper for Rangers during the 1975 season?
No, but I did offer him counselling.
Its Peter Latchford "Himself"?
Well I got a fairly emphatic response didn’t I! I can see your points, but I am still of the opinion that Kauto just couldnt travel and jump round Cheltenham at the pace that the two in front were asking him to go.
Even when NC was in front they were going a fair gallop. Now granted that the softish ground that day can be given as a major reason as to why he didn’t travel well. Jumping at pace around Chelenham (where he had already fell) is different to jumping at sandown when winning two substandard tingle creeks. He just couldnt jump at that pace. Never before or after was he presented with a gallop like that (bar maybe the CC where he fell).
Usually when a horse is underpar there is an underlying reason. This time there wasn’t. It may be possible that the horse left his race at ascot. I do not believe that was the reason though.
Never did I say that NC at his best was as good as kauto. I believe that NC was at his best in that race, and that the race suited him much much more than Kauto. Yet he still could not beat him. So obviously im not comparing NC at his best to Kauto.
Before now I would be regarded among friends as a Kauto fanboy. Have backed him in 3 gold cups, soon to be 4 KG’s, his CC tilt and his tingle creeks.
Unlike Denman in 2009, I just can’t find a real enough reason as to why Kauto was underpar that day. Therefore, I just have to put it down to tatics employed and the brutality of Denman.
I must say though, If the ground comes up genuinly good (which I doubt), I would definitely gain confidence in Kauto and would probably forgoe the race as a betiing prospect.
I am very much in the "no excuses for Kauto Star’s Cheltenham 2008 Gold Cup run" camp also.
He was beaten fairly and squarely by the better horse on the day.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
I am very much in the "no excuses for Kauto Star’s Cheltenham 2008 Gold Cup run" camp also.
He was beaten fairly and squarely by the better horse on the day.
This is the crucial bit, I feel.
I just can’t have it that they went too fast for Kauto and he was unable to jump fluently at that speed.
I’d hazard a guess that they were going a fair bit faster in his 2 Tingle Creeks.
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One of the points made by Ruby at the time was they went no where near as fast as the pace they went in the Tingle Creek and it was not the pace that caused him to travel so badly.
Anyway he has a big task in front of him on Boxing Day and hopefully he comes through that with flying colours, safe and sound. Then it’s up to Denman and the in the lap of the gods if the big decider will take place or not.
Maybe the reason they didn’t travel at the same pace as the Tingle Creek is the small matter of having to travel a mile and a quarter extra in the Gold Cup.
I would strongly argue that it was Denman’s injection of pace mid race ( and overall forcing tactics ) which upset Kauto Star’s rhythm that day, and as a consequence, took him out his comfort zone or at the very least, unsettled him.
Kauto Star did run on at the end, which suggests to me that he had found a second wind – by which time Sam Thomas and Denman ( although tiring ) had already done enough; well, seven lengths enough to be precise.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
I see the point you are trying to make Himself, but it was obvious Kauto wasn’t on song well before Denman took over imo.
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Clearly won? Cearly won??
Hmmm, for fist sake, get yourself along to Bangkok’s finest optician… and pronto ma old china !
If that’s not a dead heat, then I was a rubbish footballer back in the day.
You weren’t rubbish….you were Nobby Stiles…..without the contact lenses
"An inch is as good as a mile" so yes clearly one. Certainly not a dead heat…….right click and save it and increase the size you blind old sausage
You can clearly see Kauto’s beautiful little pecker on the line and could just get you pinkie finger in there between IC and the line….I make it 5/8"
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