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IHRB to investigate, as they should. He blatantly jumped off that.
IF he jumped off and can be proven, I assume the IHRB will finally throw the book at this pair?
If the situation was reversed and the horse was backed in late from 13/2 to 7/2 and traded long odds on in running, does anyone think young Byrnes would have fallen off so easily?
As someone not involved with the sport, can someone tell me, like I’m five years old, why wouldn’t he want to win that race?
That very much looks like a jump off to me.
However, I can sympathise with presenters who don’t want to go too overboard.I was at Fontwell when the jockey on Ice Saint “appeared” to jump off. People spoke up, if I remember rightly the Racing authorities agreed and he was banned…
Only for EDIT: jockey Sean Fox to win his appeal.…And Fallon seemed to not want to win on Top Cees, but that was also “proven” not to be the case in court. With many who spoke up being fined considerable amounts.
Value Is EverythingBecause they had punted the life out the favourite, whilst laying the eventual “faller” to then get it handicapped like state man and they hammer from 33/1 into 5/4 fav before it pisses up in some summer jumps rathole that goes under the radar
I’m not convinced he jumped in slow motion the head on shows him bumped up from the horse at the hurdle but only the jockey knows.
The more I know the less I understand.
“I was at Fontwell when the jockey on Ice Saint “appeared” to jump off. People spoke up, if I remember rightly the Racing authorities agreed and he was banned…
Only for it to be “proven” not to be the case in the Courts and I believe compensation given to the jockey.”Sean Fox was tried under a breach of (IIRC) Rules 157 and banned for 21 days, quashed on appeal.
The optics of the unseat itself were terrible, even without the backdrop of major weakness in both the on-course and online markets.
What got a bit lost in the proverbial fog, however, was that Ice Saint – previous wins notwithstanding – was already borderline defective, and had hung markedly on some of the bends prior to his exit.
Even without the unseat, and accepting this was as dire a beginners’ chase as Fontwell had ever staged, there must have been a significant chance of him finding some other way to lose the race.
He ran just thrice more after that, for two trainers across two years, pulling up each time.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Oh yes, that was it. Sorry, Sean Fox won his appeal, Jeremy. Apologies.
Do you really think it was the horse that made Ice Saint go wide on some of the bends? Did the horse really “hang”?
It was a strange one. As you say, the horse was notably weak on the exchanges. Do you know if Sean Fox always rode very short (ie like Andy Turnell short)? Because when the horses passed us in the stands on the first circuit it was enough for me to turn to my mates and comment about his irons being so short compared to the other jockeys. I suppose that must have made it easier to lose control around the bends, lose his balance out the side door… and lose the race. When Ice Saint didn’t seem to deviate from a straight path over the fence. To the untrained eye it looked very much like he jumped off.…But Sean Fox won his appeal, so I must have been mistaken.
Value Is EverythingWhen my son was 2 years old he used to “accidentally” fall off his rocking horse. His first word was “arghhh!!”
Charles Darwin to conquer the World
Seems a risky strategy , put your son on horse on what looks firmish ground and bail out , unless the son took it as his last option to lose . Id need to be winning a lot of money if I had to get one my kids to bail out off a horse at 30 odd mph , land badly and get a lifetime to regret it .
Ginger, there was admittedly just a little bit devil’s advocacy about some of the points I raised back there. I’ve certainly not spent the past two decades trying to clear Sean Fox’s name, put it that way!
That said, I’ve just had a look back at the edition of the Hunter Chasers and Point-to-Pointers annual for the one season Ice Saint spent between the flags. The gist of which is that, in the context of his being stationed with a Ben Pollock yard somewhere near the height of its powers as a pointing operation at the time, he was a disappointing type.
A win was gained in maiden company around Market Rasen’s now defunct pointing line, but he was all out to hold on despite having been gifted the winning opportunity two out by the leader’s exit. “Weakened”, “Weakened tamely” and “no extra” appear in the write-ups for his three completions either side of that, and he signed off in that sphere by pulling up two miles into a full-distance Dingley Restricted.
The annual goes on to register considerable surprise that Ice Saint was subsequently able to win twice under Rules that following summer. But look at the four efforts following the second of those wins – all defeats by between 19l and 60l, all weakening efforts, including when dropped back to an extended 2m2f.
On the basis of which, in that prevailing poor heart, I’d not have taken a short price about Ice Saint actually seeing off any and all challengers if having kept on his feet in that Fontwell race, a 2m5f contest.
That’s all as maybe. I think it would be great if espmadrid were able to upload the Fontwell race to his excellent YouTube account (if he has a recording in his possession), for people to make their own minds up once again. When all’s said and done, we’re all relying on memories of a race from 21 years ago that few of us will have seen in the interim.
It didn’t do a right lot for Sean Fox’s career, either way – just ten winners across eleven seasons thereafter, a link-up with that patron saint of lost causes and fallen angels Richard Guest only enduring for about a season or so.
Interestingly, Fox’s final Rules winner (2008-9 season) was gained riding for Ice Saint’s trainer Matt Gingell.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
If you didn’t know better, it appeared that Sean Fox tested the water at a number of fences prior to being ejected from Ice Saint. It just shows you can’t always believe everything you appear to see.
It’s interesting that Ice Saint pecked at the same fence a circuit earlier.
Horse or pilot error?
And error or “error”?
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Thanks for the detailed reply Jeremy. Especially the point to Point stuff I wasn’t aware of. I do realise you weren’t exactly defending Fox.
For sure Ice Saint wasn’t a horse to rely on. Hence being in a race of such poor quality seldom seen even at Fontwell. The winner of the race Honnieur Fontenail himself had 6 form figures prior to this race:
15th of 23 @ 66/1 on debut.
14th of 18 @ 100/1
5th of 7 @ 50/1 (beaten 70+ lengths)
Pulled Up of 14 @ 50/1
Unseated Rider of 6 @ 50/1 (was a distant 3rd when departing)…
and last time out before Fontwell a 13th of 16 beaten 25 lengths @ 100/1…All good enough to see Honnieur Fontenail start the 15/8 favourite – the race was so bad.
Not a race for anyone to bet in, but equally anyone that does have a bet in any race deserves a jockey to be trying.
Whatever he did Pointing; I think Ice Saint should be expected to be effective at the Fontwell distance having won two earlier Hurdle races over a very similar trip at Stratford. “Weak finisher” at any trip, yes. The other three horses all having their fair share of problems too, as you’d expect from such a contest. Not saying it was skulduggery, but IF it had been… For me – it was quite possible the jockey expected Ice Saint to make a bigger mistake earlier in the contest. Having its first run over fences and being not the best of jumpers of a hurdle… And going wide to go a greater distance than his rivals… And expecting fitness to tell in Ice Saint’s first race in over a year… But all the other three runners were even worse… Fox might have felt the horse was going too well and he had to make sure of losing…
I’d love espmadrid to find this race too.
But as I said, Sean Fox won his appeal and we need to accept the decision.
Value Is Everything” the head on shows him bumped up from the horse at the hurdle but only the jockey knows.”
That was my take.“Seems a risky strategy , put your son on horse on what looks firmish ground and bail out , unless the son took it as his last option to lose . Id need to be winning a lot of money if I had to get one my kids to bail out off a horse at 30 odd mph , land badly and get a lifetime to regret it .”
Agreed – you’d need to be desperate for the cash to take a risk like that and I doubt they are in desperate straits. Surely easier ways to get beat than risking life and limb. However, someone I put that point to did respond with ‘I doubt that was plan A’ which may be another way to look at it.I think the IHRB will find it hard to prove anything, despite the market moves.
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