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That was a performance out of the top drawer.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
These statistics have a near magical record of telling us AO’B three-year-olds do not win G1s in October-December. Must be 0-from-85 now.
Zenyatta brilliant, almost patronizing to those who doubted her. Mike Smith cool as a cucumber, always in control.
Greatest? Hmm. Deserves the HOTY title essentially by default for winning today, but Summer Bird and RVW ran below par and she beat two turf horses – one whose accolade of being the best turf horse in the States does not stand for much, and another who is a tough campaigner but not up to the Group 1 standard domestically.
Am I being critical, perhaps cynical? Probably yes, but the term "great" is used so widespread that it has lost all meaning. It has become a marketing tagline rather than unique gospel.
I’ll say she is better than Azeri, though. Personal Ensign? Not sure.
I do kinda feel it was a fairly average renewal of the Classic, Rip Van Winkle is a class act and was pretty sad just wilt like that like I said he is a far far better horse than Twice Over, I do think she would have had a harder time if she ran in the 2008 renewal with the times reflecting she would have had it a lot tougher, aalthough with how easy she won she surely had another second to squeeze out but shows how immense the Henrythenavigator vs Ravens Pass duel was.
Zenyatta surely has to go down as one of the best mares ever being the first ever mare to win the BC, will they keep her in training, they really did want that perfect record intact aand she has that still winning one of the most prestigous (if not the most) races going, she has nothing to prove even if people want to see her go against Rachel Alexandra, but for the benefit of racing next season we would def get to see a Zenyatta vs Rachel Alexandra series and would be one of the greatest ever rivalries ever, if she kept her record she would surely be one of the greatest racehorses ever, I hope we see it but given Zenyattas age I think she has every rigt to be whisked off to stud. She will make a great broodmare and has the Mr Prospecter gene in there of course.
I thought I heard them refer to it as her last race, but I could be mistaken.
Last race unfortunatley youre right Moe.
Glad the links I posted helped you out
Funny to hear Johnny Murtagh say Rip didnt stay and that he’s a strongly run mile horse! Wonder what Reet Hard thinks of that now…..
After all, he said Murtagh was adamant this race was RVWs for the taking…didnt he?
Before anyone starts doubting what Zenyatta defeated, here’s a list of what she beat and what they have achieved:
MINE THAT BIRD
KENTUCKY DERBY
WIN / PLACE IN EVERY LEG OF TRIPLE CROWNCOLONEL JOHN
2* GRADE ONE WINNER
SANTA ANITA DERBYSUMMER BIRD
3* GRADE ONE WINNER
BELMONT STAKES
JOCKEY CLUB GOLD CUPTWICE OVER
DUBAI CHAMPION STAKES
RICHARD’S KID
PACIFIC CLASSIC
GIO PONTI
5* GRADE ONE WINNER
ARLINGTON MILLION
MAN O’WAR STAKESEINSTEIN
4* GRADE ONE WINNER
SANTA ANITA HANDICAPRIP VAN WINKLE
2* GROUP ONE WINNER
SUSSEX STAKES
QEII STAKESQUALITY ROAD
FLORIDA DERBY
To give this field a fifteen length headstart and several lengths turning in just makes it even more incredible. She was then forced to go around Twice Over when building some momentum in the stretch. Just incredible for a horse of her size to build up momentum again at such a pivotal stage of the race and win.
There’s only two other horses that would have really completed this field and that’s Rachel Alexandra and Sea The Stars.
It’s impossible to say if she would have beaten either. She won with a great deal in hand come the finish and I guess Gary Steven’s was spot-on when he said the better they are, the better she is.
The fact is she turned up and they didn’t. She was given the opportunity to amass a huge unbeaten run. Sea The Stars wasn’t. She was given time to mature into a 5YO. Horses like Sea The Stars and Zarkava weren’t.
Many are of the opinion that it takes time to build a legacy and one of the key factors to becoming a legend is longevity.
This is a list of her achievements:
ZENYATTA
14 WINS FROM 14 STARTS
8* GRADE ONE WINNER
2* LADY’S SECRET STAKES
2* BREEDERS’ CUP VICTORIES
BC LADIES CLASSIC
BREEDERS CUP CLASSIC
FIRST FILLY / MARE TO WIN BC CLASSICNot bad and to think, the horse she has beaten on so many occasions, Life Is Sweet, romped home in the BC Ladies Classic.
To be honest I’d think Zenyatta would of beaten Sea The Stars tonight, but why should John Oxx go and risk him over there, if he had won there is no doubt to me he would have been one of the greatest racehorses ever if not the greatest but he keeps his turf legacy intact. They tried turf and the all weather on Curlin but he was just a pure dirt horse who could only run on dirt yet they ruined him going on surfaces he hated even though he performed quite fairly.
The ultimate test for Sea The Stars would have been to go over to the US and beat Zenyatta, but then Zenyatta’s ultimate test would have been to go to Europe and beat Sea The Stars on turf. I think you have to applaude Curlins owners for trying who had an Arc campaign in their minds once which stopped when he was beaten by Red Rocks.
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There’s no denying that Zenyatta is a talented mare, but with Rip Van Winkle running no sort of race the form ultimately has very little substance. Or, at the very least, it merely proves her to be top class rather than anything mouth-wateringly special.
Gio Ponti and Twice Over are certainly not devoid of ability, but they were close enough throughout the final furlong to ensure that the winner couldn’t afford to take things easy. Indeed, I don’t think she’s won half as comfortably as some seem to be suggesting and, on a line through Summer Bird, Rachel Alexandra would appear to be in a completely different league.
I think far too much is being made of how Zenyatta runs, her come-from-behind style serving to elevate her in the estimations of some. In reality it’s just her way of winning races and offering any grade of horse that sort of lead is not necessarily a pre-cursor to superstardom. She’s made up no more ground on the pace horses than Conduit had to in the Turf and I don’t see anyone heaping similarly lavish praise upon him.
If we are to believe that winning Grade One races from so far behind is sufficient to label a horse special, then the inverse of that argument must also be true; namely that winning Grade One races having gone off so quickly as to establish such a lead is worthy of equal merit. Presious Passion might not have beaten Conduit, but he wasn’t far away and still maintained a distinct advantage over Dar Re Mi. And, unless I’m mistaken, he’s been tagged as nothing more than ‘very good’.
I understand how easy it is to get caught up in the glamour of races such as this, especially when they’re won by an undefeated and charismatic mare, but Zenyatta has done nothing to confirm herself as even the best female in the US, let alone of all time.
Surely it’s not always about what a horse has beaten or what they have achieved, but how you feel at that moment in time when you’re watching them..I mean, Dessie won the Gold Cup but, hey, he only beat Yahoo, didn’t he? But it’s still etched in most people’s memories. You could talk and hype Zenyatta up as much as you like, but it still wouldn’t have made me feel the way that I did watching her tonight..there was something magical about it, and it’s what makes us go to sporting events or just watch them on the telly in the hope that you’ll be part of that moment in time….
For christ’s sake – she gave colts a 15 length start and mowed them all down in the straight, winning going away.
That was a STUNNING performance in a BC classic, regardless of Twice Overs proximity. People need to look at the essence of her performance/s rather than the winning distance in all 14 of her victories. Both Zenyatta and STS will provoke the same argument, I fear.
This is getting ridiculous.
There’s litle future in trying to discuss the finer points of form with those who can’t see the difference between Sandown and Santa Anita.
Glad you figured out that conundrum, Reet
Tolerance please, OTS – everyone is entitled to their opinions and they differ from person to person.
I don’t think it is outlandish to suggest Zenyatta might not be the greatest of all time, or the greatest mare of all time, no?
Emotionally there’s no question she is a very special horse.
I was there last year for the BC and her perfomance stole the affection of the crowd. They were talking about her even after the Classic. What would have been if… Honestly, this year seemed a tougher field all around and she smoked everyone. Twice Over ran well and I think that perhaps RVW may have had too much to overcome with feet issues. We don’t know what he is feeling and after hearing all the stuff he’s gone through and still won as many group one races as he did is amazing he’s still standing let alone running. Gio Ponti IMO should be our turf champion and older male but I think he will only get one. There is no dirt horse this year with his record and I feel that the only competition for him in that division is Einstein who obviously faltered here. What do you say about Zenyatta that has not already been said? She’s without a doubt amazing. Would I give her HOTY no. She ran one race against males and domanating as it is, Rachel Alexandra has raced and beaten males 3 times this year and ran 8 times winning them all. Zenyatta has only 5 starts. Her connections skipped an easy field of males in the Goodwood to beat up a much lesser field of fillies in the Lady’s Secret.
All I know is this, I’m getting one of those posters that they were holding up out there and I will cherrish it. I only wish that I could have been there live to see it. You could feel the electricity of that crowd through the TV.
Quality Road has acted up before and he just went bananas when he got in the gate. There was nothing they could do but try and not let him kill himself. I’m surprised they didn’t try to use the blindfold earlier on him. If indeed he races again they should make him school before doing so.
RP Report:
IN one of the most memorable, stirring and uplifting performances seen on an American racetrack, the remarkable Zenyatta ended her career in exemplary fashion by outrunning the Breeders’ Cup Classic field to send Santa Anita into a state of delirium.
Summed it up well I thought
No doubt Zenyatta is a terrific race mare but I think the commentator was more dramatic than the race
Rip Van Winkle just didn’t fire. I suspect the long season he’s had finally caught up with him. Hope he stays in training next year.
Surely it’s not always about what a horse has beaten or what they have achieved, but how you feel at that moment in time when you’re watching them..I mean, Dessie won the Gold Cup but, hey, he only beat Yahoo, didn’t he? But it’s still etched in most people’s memories.
Yahoo was a pretty decent horse on bad ground – probably as good as several horses who won Gold Cups. Desert Orchid was winning on ground which didn’t suit him and on a course where his record was poor. There were plenty of handicap performances that provided an indication that he was one of the greats.
Fist mentioned about avoiding talking about Sea The Stars but I don’t think you can because had Rip And Winkle and Mastercraftsman bolted up there would no doubt have been a clamour to elevate his rating.
There was talk about reassessing his rating after the Breeders Cup – presumably upwards? Surely the reverse can also happen? The subsequent efforts of Fame And Glory, Mastercraftsman and Rip Van Winkle have done nothing to boost the rating. If there is a solid yardstick it is the very useful but clearly not brilliant Conduit. As I suggested at the time the Arc was his best performance and also the most solid race with which to rate Sea The Stars. The form of the Irish Champion has always looked dubious and the Eclipse form was never quite what it was cracked up to be with the likes of Rip Van Winkle/Conduit/Jukebox Jury all showing better form over different trips, Twice Over improving at the backend and Cima De Triomphe subsequently doing very little for the form.
Sea The Stars was the one outstanding 3yo but although you can give him a big plus his basic rating shouldn’t be above 133.
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