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Australia is without doubt the premier sprinting centre of the horse racing universe. The only good ones you see in HK, Singapore etc are all from Australia. That includes Rocket Man and Silent Witness two of the better global sprinting benchmarks of the last five years.
To mention the quality of opposition faced by Black Caviar in the same sentence as those following Overdose home is pure ignorance. To compare Overdose to Black Caviar at all requires a lot of imagination and wishful thinking.
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I have been involved in racing in Australia for many years.Black Caviar will eat any sprinter in the world and do it on her ear,she would win the Kings Stand or Golden Jubilee by 6 lengths, she is that much better than Miss Andretti and Takeover Target and they were 2 of the best sprinters in the world.Manikato won 5 William Reid stks straight, Vain was a superstar back in the late 60’s,she would toy with both of these and not break a sweat and Manikato is close to my all time favourite horse.She is a freak!!!!!!!!!!!
I have been involved in racing in Australia for many years.Black Caviar will eat any sprinter in the world and do it on her ear,she would win the Kings Stand or Golden Jubilee by 6 lengths, she is that much better than Miss Andretti and Takeover Target and they were 2 of the best sprinters in the world.Manikato won 5 William Reid stks straight, Vain was a superstar back in the late 60’s,she would toy with both of these and not break a sweat and Manikato is close to my all time favourite horse.She is a freak!!!!!!!!!!!
John McNair seemed to suggest that Hay List hasn’t been 100% when he’s matched up against Black Caviar. Still thinks he’s no match for her, but that the margin might be reduced.
Royal Ascot is a funny course that has brought quite a few good sprinters undone. Apparently she’s a bit hot-headed and thus they are hesitant to travel.
Silent Witness was a great horse but Hong Kong racing followers think that Sacred Kingdom would have beat him, and I agree. For what it’s worth, Sacred Kingdom has smashed his Sha Tin track records. The HK Bomb is still the best in my mind but Black Caviar will take over if she’s as good as I think she is.
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She is adaptable,all the aussie horse seem to handle Ascot well.Silent Witness was a brilliant sprinter but Black Caviar is in another class.Yes he had a great record but this is a mare who if let go could have beaten very good sprinters in a group 1 race by 9 lengths! In time i am sure she will be regarded as the greatest sprinter seen and a once in a life time horse.
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She’s very good, wouldn’t get too excited just like those with Overdose did.
Nothing to prove in Australlia but everything to prove world wide, come to Ascot if you’re good enough.
Can I just say it’s bloody ludicrus to suggest she deserves the same regonition as Zenyatta or Goldikova.
No it would be ludicrous to compare those two mares to Black Caviar
We have won the big ones at Ascot with horses that are lengths inferior to her,She has won the group 1 Newmarket 1200 mtrs a few minutes ago she carried 58kg in a 50kg minimum race and she ran 1min7.3, Zenyatta and Goldikova would make good gallop partners for her,they are brilliant yes,but Black Caviar is in another league that has never before been seen!- Total Posts 17716
She’s very good, wouldn’t get too excited just like those with Overdose did.
Nothing to prove in Australlia but everything to prove world wide, come to Ascot if you’re good enough.
Can I just say it’s bloody ludicrus to suggest she deserves the same regonition as Zenyatta or Goldikova.
No it would be ludicrous to compare those two mares to Black Caviar
We have won the big ones at Ascot with horses that are lengths inferior to her,She has won the group 1 Newmarket 1200 mtrs a few minutes ago she carried 58kg in a 50kg minimum race and she ran 1min7.3, Zenyatta and Goldikova would make good gallop partners for her,they are brilliant yes,but Black Caviar is in another league that has never before been seen!In all fairness Golikova and Zenyatta are really mile+ horses so a comparison with sprinters would not be fair to each of the 3 horses.
Yes he had a great record but this is a mare who if let go could have beaten very good sprinters in a group 1 race by 9 lengths! In time i am sure she will be regarded as the greatest sprinter seen and a once in a life time horse.
That’s the impression I get as well, but as Bart Cummings said in the RacingPost, we don’t have a clear form reference. There aren’t many great sprinters in Australia outside of those two which is a fact; Eagle Falls is no star and Star Witness isn’t always there. And as we know many horses give pretty much their all under minimal riding; even though it looks like she has a few lengths up her sleeve that isn’t always the case.
But the manner in which she does it is remarkable, and she does it on the clock too. Hay List too, the way he coasted away from Eagle Falls in last year’s Manikato was remarkable. Like I said, she looks like an all time great, and perhaps she is the all time great sprinter, but we need clearer form before we can say that she’s definitely better than Sacred Kingdom back in the day.
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Yes it is true that a lot of horses go better when they are held together,though i think she could have spaced them in a couple of recent races.Today in the Newmarket was the only time she was extended,you see on the replay that she was swishing her tail the last 150mt or so,though she was entitled to with that weight,running that time.Sacred Kingdom was a brilliant horse,but did it all in HK and Singapore,got beaten about 4and a half lengths when he took on the Golden Jubilee at Ascot.As for Bart saying there isnt anything to compare her with,well i think that is because we have never seen anything like her.She will now only contest WFA races so barring injury i cant see her getting beaten,lets face it she can have a bed day and be 4 lengths off her best and still win.Whilst it may not be the best year for sprinters i think some of those a long way behind her would give the 2 big sprints at Ascot a bit of a shake.I f you take a line through a horse like Scenic Blast at his best,he would be running 2nd or 3rd to her quite a few lengths behind her.Anyway time will tell i suppose.
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Seems like she will be having 1 more run in Melb,then off to Sydney and Brisbane,so seems like no Ascot this year.So the 4/1 is with her running? Do you support any other charitable organisations?
Horses are horses. Look at JJ the Jetplane – Just didn’t perform in Britain. He just didn’t settle into it. He’s clearly better than what he did in Britain and Sacred Kingdom likewise. They’re not gameboys, you know?
(I know I’m talking to smart people so don’t feel like I’m being condescending)
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I remain convinced that our tracks/turf pose a stiffer test than those of the sub-tropics,(a view supported by our slower standard times) and quite often the Aussies don’t last home over our 6f.
It’s no coincidence, therefore, that JJ the Jet Plane didn’t quite see out the Golden Jubilee or the July Cup, but ran his closest UK finish over 5f. Similarly with Takeover Target and Sacred Kingdom, and though Choisir won the GJ om firm ground, he was unable to repeat that feat on slightly slower at Newmarket, albeit behind a very good horse.Sacred Kingdom is almost purely a fast ground horse. The Ascot track is undulating, which was no bonus, and the kickback seen on the video replay suggests that it was the softest track Sacred Kingdom has raced on (even though it was rated Good). He was also sweating up before the race, which he never does… then he missed the start, and was squeezed up and bumped around in the run, so everything went wrong on the day.
I doubt the sweating up and in-running problems would have mattered on a faster track, and the trainer also suggested that the ground was the main issue. Stamina wasn’t the specific issue in my mind, because Sacred Kingdom stays 7f (desperately unlucky not to beat Good Ba Ba over a quickly run 7f back in the day). The ground likely kept him from showing his best.
I think the undulations and cut in the track cause similar problems for many sprinters. And I agree that it’s a stiffer test. David Oughton who trained Cape Of Good Hope (1st & 3rd in the Golden Jubilee, 2nd & 3rd in the King’s Stand, 4th in the July Cup) believed that to win a big 6f G1 in the UK you needed a horse who could run out 7f at Sha Tin.
Black Caviar handles cut though, which would be a plus if she travels.
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I remain convinced that our tracks/turf pose a stiffer test than those of the sub-tropics,(a view supported by our slower standard times) and quite often the Aussies don’t last home over our 6f.
It’s no coincidence, therefore, that JJ the Jet Plane didn’t quite see out the Golden Jubilee or the July Cup, but ran his closest UK finish over 5f. Similarly with Takeover Target and Sacred Kingdom, and though Choisir won the GJ om firm ground, he was unable to repeat that feat on slightly slower at Newmarket, albeit behind a very good horse.Remember Miss Andretti taking 2seconds(yes 2 seconds) off the track record in the Kings Stand!!! She was the only horse in history to hold 5 simultaneous track records! Black Caviar is much better believe me,and Flemington in a Newmarket is a tough test as they go hard all the way.Our horse are much better suited to a cooler climate in the UK rather then HK or Singapore,most have little problems settling in England.Besides if she is 4 lengths off her best it means she only wins by a length or 2
You may think i am a little carried away but she is the best sprinter this country has produced by a long way.- Total Posts 17716
I wouldn’t know enough about her to question what you say, Shattered, and she is clearly a very fast horse, but I do know she won’t be running any sub 68 secs times at Ascot (course record 72.27) or Newmarket (70.3).
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No thats right,no chance of those sort of times,but if she puts it all together i think she would lower them by quite a bit.If anyone hasnt seen her last 2 or 3 wins just go to ‘black caviar youtube’ and have a look,its mind boggling!
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Manikato won 5 William Reid stks straight, Vain was a superstar back in the late 60’s,she would toy with both of these
Most of what you say is fairly accurate if somewhat emotive Shattered. Don’t get confused between hyperbole and fact though. Manikato was an exceptional horse and Vain was the best sprinter Australia has ever seen. Both could win at a mile in top company. We are yet to see such a display from Black Caviar. At least she has Vain on both sides of her pedigree.
That said she is simply the most awesome sprinter on the planet in the last decade or two. I actually took 1.22 about her yesterday and I’ve never done anything like that in my life before. She’s that good. Sacred Kingdom is excellent but Black Caviar is in a league of horse that is seen very rarely. Name the last or any time Sacred Kingdom has carried 3lbs over WFA and conceded weight to the entire field winning a Gr1 contest. There’s something Zenyatta and Zarkava never did!
Black Caviar may have been a slight problem child especially in the barriers but she’s a real pro now. She still wears a barrier blanket but as the trainer explained yesterday if it aint broke don’t fix it. Walks like an old pro around the enclosure with folks waving flags and calling out from over the fence. Nothing wrong with her temperament.
As I said elsewhere yesterday this mare doesn’t have to travel to prove herself. The sprinting opposition in Oz is generally better than anywhere else and the prizemoney cannot be matched bar HK/Japan. Let the world come to Black Caviar if they want to knock off her crown. Zenyatta and Zarkava never had to travel to prove a thing and neither does the daughter of Bel Esprit.
We have won the big ones at Ascot with horses that are lengths inferior to her,She has won the group 1 Newmarket 1200 mtrs a few minutes ago she carried 58kg in a 50kg minimum race and she ran 1min7.3, Zenyatta and Goldikova would make good gallop partners for her,they are brilliant yes,but Black Caviar is in another league that has never before been seen!
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