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Frankel is a very good horse with serious personality flaws.Henry is a world class trainer who has yet to figure out Frankel.If and when he does we will be able to make an honest evaluation of Frankel. But for now he is a seriously flawed thoroughbred horse with incredible potential.My remarks are based on the fact that Henry has so much difficulty getting hime to settle. He is now four and pretty soon either Henry will have to say the horse is ready to go on or that he cannot train him.If the horse was not flawed he would travel like any other and race internationally like any other horse.There would be no need for the "perfect" ride,or the "perfect" conditions for him to win.Did STS get a perfect ride every time he was ridden especially in the Arc?
You think he has potential do you? Thanks Andy – hilarious post!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
So Brigadier Gerard was not a true legend?
He may have won over further but he wasn’t anywhere near as good as Mill Reef was over 12 furlongs but at 8f he was very much his superior.
Frankel was the best in the world last season and deserved every bit of his rating. Distance has nothing to do with it.
Who knows what trip he will get this season? How can you possible use the world FACT when you have no idea how far he will get.
There’s 2 1/2 stones between Frankel and 100 rated handicappers He’d find it very hard to lose against one of those at any trip.
Totally agree HGM.
Value Is EverythingI think it’s fair criticism. The best in the world are just so because they can perform in different conditions on different courses. Sea The Stars ( much superior to Frankel in my opinion ) went and proved it in the Arc – there are many others.
Totti – gifted footballer but useless outside his own backyard.
Sea The Stars’ Arc was quite some way below his best peformance. Irish Champion and Eclipse are better.
Value Is EverythingIf a horse is fast enough and game enough there’s no need to get him to rate, even at a route
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-6Qfmrhk8U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7k1KcMNJPE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWZTtBlIng4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5tdERICAa4
Well, most of the time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNwF7nN6hEYLike I say he will wind us up all year and as you can see I will gladly bite!
Joni,Why do you think
Frankel
has been kept in training as a 4yo when he could go to the Juddmonte breeding sheds and Sire more Top Class Milers like himself?…………Because connections know thats all he will ever be remembered for! Sir Henry knows he has a freak on his hands and this horse more than any other keeps him on his toes,Henry wants this fellow to prove himself over further just so he does get to be a legend and its having the stamina and speed that seperate the truly greats from erm……….Frankel.You know as well as I do that he wouldn’t get 11/2m if he started now.I’ll stick my head on the block and say he will fail over 11/4m too! The horse is too much of a livewire! Hey! I do hope he has trained on,you know I’ll take it as a moral victory if he hasn’t………Just as you’d calmed down too eh!
Hurdy,only you would compare the legendary
Brigadier Gerard
to Frankel.One of which did win plenty Group 1’s over a Mile,the other did that and win over 1/4m and guess what a 11/2m too! Like I keep saying when Frankel wins an Eclipse and a King George then we’ll compare the 2!
I’d go with Henry’s judgement and he seems to think, above all else, that he is a turf horse and that he’ll stay a mile and a quarter.
All this nonsense about having to win over 1 1/2 mile to be a great horse. Preference for a certain distance is due to fashion and nothing else. A horse can be a great sprinter, miler, middle distance horse or stayer. Because he/she is dominant over 12f doesn’t make he/she any ‘greater’ than one dominant over 6f, unless of course your measure of ‘greatness’ is artificially biased. Agree?
But it does beg the question that if one can be dominant over a
range
of distances that he/she deserves special status. KF is probably right in that it probably does. Sea The Stars, Nashwan and Chief Singer are probably the three who stand out in my time racing, a trio who were champions over a range of distances. You could add Oh So Sharp to that list too. And of course, further back, Nijinsky and (just about) the Brigadier too. I’m sure I’ll have missed some.
So, in that respect, Frankel does still have something to do to warrant such comparison. But is such comparison what it’s all about? Whether or not he goes and wins over further, he’s still probably the
best
racehorse most of us are likely to see (although maybe not the most versatile although that remains to be seen). I reckon I’ll be lucky to ever see one as good in my lifetime.
And, if he were mine, America in October would be the very last place I’d take him. He’d have absolutely nothing to gain by running there on the back of what will hopefully be a dominant season here.
Frankel is a very good horse with serious personality flaws.Henry is a world class trainer who has yet to figure out Frankel.If and when he does we will be able to make an honest evaluation of Frankel. But for now he is a seriously flawed thoroughbred horse with incredible potential.My remarks are based on the fact that Henry has so much difficulty getting hime to settle. He is now four and pretty soon either Henry will have to say the horse is ready to go on or that he cannot train him.If the horse was not flawed he would travel like any other and race internationally like any other horse.There would be no need for the "perfect" ride,or the "perfect" conditions for him to win.Did STS get a perfect ride every time he was ridden especially in the Arc?
I doubt if Henry or anyone will get Frankel to settle much better than he does unless they can find opposition that can travel as well as he does.
I get the exact same impression with Frankel on the flat as I do Sprinter Sacre over fences, who has actually been mentioned on several occasions by different people as the Frankel of the jumps.
These horses travel with such ease and cover the ground so quickly that they look to be expending massive amounts of energy but if they are why is neither is affected in the way you would expect from a hard early puller?
It’s probably due to the fact they are no where near their top cruising speed and because they are only cantering while others are galloping they are saving more energy than they are expending if that makes sense?
As the race progresses and their momentum increases and they go from cantering to actually galloping it becomes near impossible for jockeys to even try to restrain them and before you know it they have hit the front. Then to top it off their jockey asks them to go one and before you know it they are lengths clear and the race is over
I would tend to use the word freak for a horse like Frankel rather than flawed because if he is flawed his record says differently.
A horse like Frankel is a bit different than the 2 year old who despite a good gallop is totally out of control and doing everything in his power to hit top gear within 2 furlongs.
If you let a mad 2yo go he’ll go faster than is good for him and burn himself out, but as we saw in the Guineas let Frankel get into a nice even gallop and nothing can even keep up with him and he will see the race out.
I’m not suggesting they should try those tactics over 10 or 12 furlongs but if Frankel does run over 10 or even furlong and looks to be pulling too hard early I would still bank on him to win, because he’s not a tearaway IMO he’s just a much superior traveler.
I have to agree with David Gord.
Not every great horse has been a 12 furlong horse and Brigadier Gerard could never be proclaimed as a brilliant 12 furlong horse byy any stretch of the imagination. The only reason he ran in the King George was because the opportunity to win a poorly contested Group 1 came about. Parnell who finished 2nd wasn’t even a 12 furlong horse he was a 2 miler and as slow as a boat.
Had Mill Reef been running he wouldn’t have gone within a mile of the race.
No doubt in my mind Frankel would get 10 furlongs standing on his head….he could hack canter for a mile without breaking sweat and have loads left.
He just too good a traveler not to get 10f and I doubt if many would have him breaking sweat over 12 furlongs if Henry decided to go that way.
If he has proved himself every bit as good over 10f and an exceptional Derby winner emerges this season Henry would be stupid to risk taking him on in the likes of the King George when the possibility is they could clash in the Champion Stakes.
A win against a good Derby winner even over 10 furlongs could see Frankel become the highest rated horse of all time.
I would imagine that is the main reason he’s running at 4 years of age.
A self acclaimed title I’m afraid.
As far as price money goes it is a street ahead of Europe eg but as far as attracting the top horses from all over the world goes it falls short of being a true world Championship.
For example the chances Frankel and Black Caviar turning up there is fairly remote. Not much of a world Championship if the best don’t turn up.
Conduit and Goldikova won there 2 and 3 times but World Champions ?..Sea the Stars Canford Cliffs and Frankel would have something to say about that.
I love the Breeders but as far as 12 furlong races go the Arc is by far the most prestigious race in Europe if not the World.
There is no true world cup in racing only world class horses.
Those tha have read my posts before know that I’m an Aussie, but I hope that I don’t come accross as a boorish one or one eyed. Agreed that Frankel & Black Caviar are the 2 best in the world. I doubt they will meet in a race. 1600m in UK would be like 2000m here, Moody wouldn’t risk it.
I agree with the poster that your Sir H must think tht Frankel could b e the best ever as he wants to extend him to 2000m, which I think is great, rather than retire him which appears to be the norm with your champion 3yos. It’s a big risk, look what happened with Workforce. He was supposed to be a world champion as a 3yo, look what happens when you have to carry weight against some good horses. Of course I don’t believe that he is in the same class as Frankel, but who knows what will happen this season. By the way, can somebody please explain the infactuation with 3yo races, they’re all restricted!!
I can’t see how anyone can lay claim to another being a better sprinter than BC. Ortensia has franked the sprinting international form up over the past 2 years and she can’t get within cooee of BC.
As for the Breeders’ Cup meeting. Hard to line up who is the best when the best from the US race on dirt but, to me, the BCTurf is a poor man’s Arc, at best. I rate the Japan Cup a better race, the Sheema Classic a better race, the King George a better race, the HK Vase is every bit as good. I rate it above our BMW which is a tragic 2400m WFA race on a world scale but we don’t claim it as a world championship race!
Anyway, looking forward to your flat season & if you punt on the races in Oz, have an EW bet on Pierro in the Golden Slipper (I know, I don’t understand the infactuation with 2yo races either!)
Normally Derby winners are not great King George horses. So as someone above said if he be afraid to take on the Derby winner in the KG. then he is no world beater.
The WFA scale favours older horses in the Eclipse, tends to favour 3yo in the King George (despite recent renewals, hopefully last year’s victory by Nathaniel will see more 3yo’s take advantage) and is very much in their favour by the time the Arc is run.
Normally Derby winners are not great King George horses. So as someone above said if he be afraid to take on the Derby winner in the KG. then he is no world beater.
Nijinsky, Mill Reef, Grundy, The Minstrel, Troy, Shergar, Teenoso, Dancing Brave, Reference Point, Nashwan, Generous, Lamtarra, Galileo, Hurricane Run.
Yeah – good point Andy.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
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