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The Horse won. She is still unbeaten. Why, months later, is a sudden explanation required? Feels somewhat insecure. 20+ races undefeated, with known rateable form. Why not say she simply ran below form instead of some dubious hollywood answer. A horse running below form doesn’t detract from the achievements already posted.
The story seems even more bizarre given if he did think this, why would he have run her, given how much they visibly care about her unbeaten record/perceptions of her. Team Caviar really did want to inform you on how good she is.
Rubbish "H" Moody not the type to make up stories he’s as straight talking as they come.
When asked at Ascot what he thought of Frankel before Black Caviar had run he didn’t hesitate to say "Frankel is the best horse in the world"
It was never their plan to try and impress us with a Frankel style win and if you need further proof of that Moody said jokingly after Frankel won he might change their plan and go for broke.
The plan was always to ride her to beat those around her and not try and do anything flash and she was doing exactly that until her jockey messed up. The fact she appeared to slow more than normal when a horse is eased near the line made things look even worse.
I know nothing of this tweet probably the same asshole who said Frankel had been retired what I do know is she was found to have two muscle strains after Ascot and here’s no reason for Moody to lie about that.
It’s not like he’s trying to say she is better or as good as Frankel as he’s already admitted she is not.
There’s no shame in that she is without doubt the best sprinter in the world and it would take a brave man to say she is not the best sprinter of all time based on one under par performance.
Their confidence in her is unshaken and their intentions now is to bring her back and increase her already impressive unbeaten record and no doubt she will.
I’d love to see Aussie racing send out a few invitations to some decent European sprinters to go over and take her on before she retires and we’ll get a chance to put any doubts about how brilliant she is to bed.
Rubbish "H" Moody not the type to make up stories he’s as straight talking as they come.
Then why has this story surfaced now?
When asked at Ascot what he thought of Frankel before Black Caviar had run he didn’t hesitate to say "Frankel is the best horse in the world"
And? The British media asks him a question and he responds with what they wish to hear with an answer that is validated by ratings.
It was never their plan to try and impress us with a Frankel style win and if you need further proof of that Moody said jokingly after Frankel won he might change their plan and go for broke.
You know what the motivations for coming over? They travelled across the world to face supposedly weaker competition for prize money similar to that at home. They have developed their own brand, geared towards boosting the perception of their horse. We were told she was beyond exceptional.
You’re surely not naive enough to believe they didn’t come over here to impress? They travelled to show how good she is. They had something to prove in their eyes. Otherwise they would not have travelled here.
They wanted Royal Ascot to be an avenue to show off their horse, and prove beyond all doubt the true substance of her ability to those outside Australia.
The plan was always to ride her to beat those around her and not try and do anything flash and she was doing exactly that until her jockey messed up. The fact she appeared to slow more than normal when a horse is eased near the line made things look even worse.
Black Caviar is an outstanding horse. Better than she surely showed at Royal Ascot. She was all-out, even with a jockey error. She won, but it was an anti-climax. Lets not pretend otherwise.
I know nothing of this tweet probably the same asshole who said Frankel had been retired what I do know is she was found to have two muscle strains after Ascot and here’s no reason for Moody to lie about that.
Nobody is saying he is lying about the reported injury.
You’re simply wondering off on tangents that wern’t be discussed.
It’s not like he’s trying to say she is better or as good as Frankel as he’s already admitted she is not.
I don’t know what his views were Pre-Royal Ascot with regard to Frankel and how his horse compares. Irrelevant really, given they haven’t met, and compete at different distances.
There’s no shame in that she is without doubt the best sprinter in the world and it would take a brave man to say she is not the best sprinter of all time based on one under par performance.
Their confidence in her is unshaken and their intentions now is to bring her back and increase her already impressive unbeaten record and no doubt she will.
No doubt. This doesn’t mean we can’t read between the lines and the team brand and realise some insecurity, or rather something to prove, exists or did exist.
I don’t know whether this tweet is factual. If it is, it’s very bizarre. The timing is odd and it’s content even more odd, given to me at least, it would contradict the motives of bringing her over in the first place.
I’d love to see Aussie racing send out a few invitations to some decent European sprinters to go over and take her on before she retires and we’ll get a chance to put any doubts about how brilliant she is to bed.
You sound Australian.
No one doubts she is exceptional. I don’t doubt at her peak, she’d destroy our sprinting division. All we are saying is, the one solitary performance from here over here did not meet the hype and was frankly a little disappointing. This doesn’t detract from previous performances.
Having been around horses all my life I could tell from the TV shots that the horse pulled up lame. I was not surprised to learn later that she had torn muscles. Anyone who thought that horse looked fine after the race (and who thought that was her true running) is ignorant or in denial.
Having said that, even her true running would not have troubled Frankel.
Having been around horses all my life I could tell from the TV shots that the horse pulled up lame. I was not surprised to learn later that she had torn muscles. Anyone who thought that horse looked fine after the race (and who thought that was her true running) is ignorant or in denial.
Having said that, even her true running would not have troubled Frankel.
Hello all been away working in a god forsaken place,back for a few days of normality.I agree Admiral she looked a bit short in her action.No smoke and mirrors she simply won on her class,it wasnt her usual stellar performance,but in hindsight maybe her best under the circumstances.Nothing to do with Aussies v Poms with Moody,not the kind of bloke who looks for excuses.Still for me i think the most memorable day in my life being at Royal Ascot with all the pomp and ceremony and the build up with the added drama of the race the feeling was sublime! Yes Royal Ascot may be construed as snobbish but i had a ball,loved it,if you havn’t been go and make your own mind up.I will be a regular from now on,maybe even don the top hat and tails next year (stolen)! You wouldn’t expect any less from an Aussie
News on twitter that trainer Peter Moody has apparently informed the crowd at the Queensland Racing Awards that he rang has wife and said he was going to scratch Black Caviar on the eve of the Golden Jubilee Stakes at Royal Ascot. He suggested that he knew she wasn’t right going into the Saturday morning.
Also Cormack i quickly read your post weeks ago in regards to you meeting Aussies at Royal Ascot and enjoying their company,same here with the locals,i stayed at Camberley and had many a pint at the Sawyers Arms and also another local pub,the name escapes me but enjoyed it so much! When it all boils down we are all racing tragics who love our racing and a good day out no matter where we are from.I was in thr furlong club for my 3 days racing at Royal Ascot and saw some people the whole 3 days,by the end there was real camaraderie.The first day there were no seats so myself other Aussies and Poms decided we had to go on a plastic chair and table stealing mission from the front lawn(who better to get then an Aussie to steal things!)We were bailed up by security and put the chaairs down waited until we sent our man in to talk to same person,diverted his attention and pilfered chairs and tables carried to the furlong club!A team effort by Aussie and English ingenuity:) We set a trend the next day there was a steady stream of chairs and tables pilfered from the lawn to furlong club,by day 5 it was considered poor form not to steal chairs from the lawn:)
I would like to assure J17star that I am not Australian but I am a realist.
This statement Moody is supposed to have made appears in one place and one place only up to now and that’s on this forum which I find strange.
No matter what anyone says Moody made his mind up he wasn’t coming to Ascot to try and blow our minds.
That is not something pulled out of a hat Moody made it perfectly clear he was there to do a job and that job was to win not to try and be a show off.
As I said before the plan was to ride a race and that’s exactly what her pilot did.
Despite the fact she was most likely over the top after 9 races in 8 months and her jockey dropping her hands win she did.
I’ll defy anyone to argue that if he had not dropped his hands she’d have won by between 1 1/2 lengths and 2 lengths and the media would have praised her and said she had won with plenty in hand as they eyes can be very deceiving and we would not be having this debate.
To my eyes Black Caviar approaching the furlong marker looked in a different league to those around her then something seemed to go wrong.
Peter Moody has given his opinion in his usual honest way and he’s not out to fool anyone.IMO
Last night I watched all her races and never once did she flinch like she did at Ascot. She ran just about the same race as she always has then stopped like shot.
If that’s not a sign of something amiss I don’t know what the hell is.
Prior to the race Peter Moody made it quite plain that if he thought the mare was anything less than 100%, then he would not hesitate to withdraw her – Royal Ascot or no Royal Ascot !
Therefore, in light of the latest revelations, then why didn’t he, one is prone to ask ?
Unless of course there was nothing amiss and the pre match boasting had rendered the jolly one somewhat embarrassed. Now, far be it from me to show cynicism, but…
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
I would like to assure J17star that I am not Australian but I am a realist.
I know you aren’t Australian. I know you don’t have a good sarcasm radar. I know you aren’t a realist (See Sprinter Sacre and your obsession). You’re very much blinded in some debates.
This statement Moody is supposed to have made appears in one place and one place only up to now and that’s on this forum which I find strange.
I agree.
No matter what anyone says Moody made his mind up he wasn’t coming to Ascot to try and blow our minds.
Then why did he come to Ascot? To face higher level competiton? For the massive prize money?
No, he came here to prove outside the borders of Australia how good his horse is. His team brand should surely imply what they are trying to do.
Either you’re being very very naive, you’re a lunatic or you’re arguing for the sake of it, because i think its pretty damn obvious Black Caviar came over here to impress us. Impress also doesn’t mean what Frankel did, before you bother using that as some sort of retort.
That is not something pulled out of a hat Moody made it perfectly clear he was there to do a job and that job was to win not to try and be a show off.
I fear you may be susceptible to propaganda.
As I said before the plan was to ride a race and that’s exactly what her pilot did.
Ride a race? Every jockey on every horse has a plan to ride a race. The objective was to win, obviously. If you believe they came here to win by 1/2 length and produce a performance clearly below her best, then fine, believe that, but again, it’s strikes me as a pretty naive view.
Despite the fact she was most likely over the top after 9 races in 8 months and her jockey dropping her hands win she did.
Why are you being so defensive? I’ve said i don’t judge her on the performance she gave at Royal Ascot, given she clearly ran below her best form. Seems at this point you’re arguing with yourself.
I’ll defy anyone to argue that if he had not dropped his hands she’d have won by between 1 1/2 lengths and 2 lengths and the media would have praised her and said she had won with plenty in hand as they eyes can be very deceiving and we would not be having this debate.
She was pretty much all out. Not much left.
Peter Moody has given his opinion in his usual honest way and he’s not out to fool anyone.IMO
Obviously we have different views on why he brought Black Caviar over. Then this supposed tweet came along, which IMO seems odd given i think it is pretty clear why he came over. We were told he had reservations about coming over in the first place, that he wouldn’t run her if she wasn’t 100%. This tweet contradicts both his IMO obvious motives for coming over, and the words coming from the Moody Camp in the build up to the race.
Then you decided to go on the defensive trying to defend Black Caviar and her status, when all we are discussing is one performance ; which was patently below form.
Last night I watched all her races and never once did she flinch like she did at Ascot. She ran just about the same race as she always has then stopped like shot.
If that’s not a sign of something amiss I don’t know what the hell is.
Sometimes i think you’re just talking to yourself.
You sound like you don’t believe me Hurdy –
http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/superracing/trainer-peter-moody-still-coy-on-black-caviars-return-to-racetrack/story-fn67rs0f-1226468389613
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/superracing/trainer-peter-moody-still-coy-on-black-caviars-return-to-racetrack/story-fn67siys-1226468389613
Get a grip David, I said no such thing, I said I don’t trust tweets as anyone with a keyboard can put them up. Some do make the news others turn out to be BS. The story has only hit the press in the last few hours.
Most papers are going with the line "I almost scratched Black Caviar" which of course the man he never actually said.
Those who are insinuating he lied about being concerned obviously paid no attention to what Ryan Moore had to say in the press the next day "
I didn’t have a ride in the race but I went out to see her in the paddock, and I couldn’t believe how poor she looked. She was hairy and didn’t look to have a lot of core strength about her. She looked like a mare who had had a hard life and needed a rest.
Right after the race I said
"I’m just listening to Steve Drowne who had a look at her in the paddock and said if it wasn’t for who she was he would have told anyone who asked not to touch her.
He went on to say she was long in her coat which tends to sap energy and overall she simply did not look in the condition you would expect in a horse trained to the minute.
It seems to me some people chose to ignore the obvious and take pleasure out of insinuating others are liars.
Peter Moody is either as blind as a bat and thought she looked fantastic or he was concerned and is telling it the way it was.
I prefer to believe the latter.
It seems to me your blindly arguing with yourself. No one has disputed that Black Caviar was below form, or not fully fit.
What i take contention with, is your naive understanding of why they came over here, and the obsession with defending Moody. Why?
This story somewhat contradicts the entire motives and pre-race talk. Just utterly bizarre.
Long time lurker here (yes I’m Australian but please don’t hold it against me – I’m a big Frankel fan) – just wanted to comment on the why Black Caviar was running at Royal Ascot… Having watched interviews with the owners I honestly think the primary reason Black Caviar was there (to be blunt) was so the owners could live it up at Ascot and meet the Queen. Royal Ascot was seemingly on their wish list and obviously Moody wanted to make the owners happy and also have personal success at Royal Ascot himself having come up short in previous years.
Ultimately the end goal of Royal Ascot with its different-to-Australia-conditions meant in my opinion none of her 2012 races were her at her peak as she was run/trained differently to what she would have been with no Ascot in mind. She wouldn’t have run 1400m one week, 1000m the next in a normal season and she would have been in the paddock in June in a normal year. Unfortunately now she will miss the spring carnival here in Australia.
It’s a shame you guys didn’t see her at her best but I’m hoping with an extended break and back to normal training she will be able to show us another Newmarket Handicap or TJ Smith Stakes style win to go out on a real high note at her best. But if she doesn’t race again that’s ok too – she doesn’t need to prove anything more on the track – she’s rated one of the best mares ever – that’s a great achievement!
I will watch with interest which stallion they send her too – would be interesting if they sent her to Frankel though I don’t know if they would bring her back to England to be serviced. I will go back to lurking now thanks for reading.
Naive am I "J"?
Your the ignoramus who came away with "dubious Hollywood answer"
Peter Moody was a recipient of an award at a gathering where the main item of discussion was always going to be Black Caviar.
Some dick of a reporter latches on to something that everyone was already aware of, twists it and makes a mountain out of a molehill.
You like a brainless sheep follow suit and start accusing the man of making up excuses when in truth all he’s doing is looking back on his experience at Ascot. What else was he meant to talk about to racing audience…….what he caught when he was fishing on Sunday?
This is supposed to be a forum for intelligent discussion but this thread is like a school for tittle tattle.
It’s people like you that are naive and the press just love you for it because without you sweetie wives they’d be out of a job
Get a grip David, I said no such thing, I said I don’t trust tweets as anyone with a keyboard can put them up. Some do make the news others turn out to be BS. The story has only hit the press in the last few hours.
Most papers are going with the line "I almost scratched Black Caviar" which of course the man he never actually said.
Those who are insinuating he lied about being concerned obviously paid no attention to what Ryan Moore had to say in the press the next day "
I didn’t have a ride in the race but I went out to see her in the paddock, and I couldn’t believe how poor she looked. She was hairy and didn’t look to have a lot of core strength about her. She looked like a mare who had had a hard life and needed a rest.
Right after the race I said
"I’m just listening to Steve Drowne who had a look at her in the paddock and said if it wasn’t for who she was he would have told anyone who asked not to touch her.
He went on to say she was long in her coat which tends to sap energy and overall she simply did not look in the condition you would expect in a horse trained to the minute.
It seems to me some people chose to ignore the obvious and take pleasure out of insinuating others are liars.
Peter Moody is either as blind as a bat and thought she looked fantastic or he was concerned and is telling it the way it was.
I prefer to believe the latter.
That’s very interesting Hurdyman. What I find even more interesting is that Peter Moody still ran her. I don’t think Sir Henry Cecil would have done the same, even after travelling around the globe. It seems to me, Peter Moody is perhaps a little bit of an irresponsible trainer if the above observations are true.
Obviously if they are true then he would have noticed, so with that taken into account, he took a very big risk with a reputation that could not afford to be lost and just came out by the skin of his teeth. Not very professional decision.
I think if I or some other UK born said that to him, his response would be something along the lines of "Well she bloody won didn’t she" you smart a$$ed pommie"
Ya gotta love those Aussies
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