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Has anyone considered the possibility that it was So You Think that never came up or performed to his best last year? This excuse has been bandied around for Workforce. The problem with Workforce was he won a weak Derby & a weak Arc as a 3yo. Once he had to carry weight he wasn’t the same. Maybe he matured earlier than other horses and they "caught him" by his 4yo year, who knows.
SYT had to travel 12,000 miles to a different hemisphere. Did he acclimatize? His trainer has freely admitted to botching up his campaign last year, he should have known better.
How many horses had a tougher campaign than SYT did last year? A cosy win in a weak G3 & G1 in Ireland. A 2nd beaten a head at RA after being left like a sitting duck a long way out. A win against the reigning Derby & Arc hero when, again, not given any favours. A tough G1 win in Ireland against a top class mare who "had him" at the 300m but he kept pulling out plenty. A creditible 4th in the Arc, thrashing the likes of Workforce & SNA and just being touched off by SF with whom, if the barriers were reveresed, their positions may have too. Let’s throw in the after thoughts of the new 2000m G1 when 2nd behind CDA & beating home SF again (who was unlucky), and the ludicrous decision to run in the BCC on DIRT, not all weather, where he again tired at the end for 6th. So after that idiotic decision, let’s start his current term in the DWC on the Tapeta!! Again, 4th, another creditible performance.
He has just won the GC for the 2nd year running, easier than he did last year. He has never dodged or shirked a challenge. Is he a wonder horse? No, but you’d be a fool to believe he was, he wasn’t even a wonder horse in his homeland! And don’t come at me with the Aussies saud this & that. You don’t rate what any of us say on here anyway so why would you selectively believe those statements?
We’re also talking about a horse that had won 2 Cox Plates by his 10th start, something Black Caviar or Frankel didn’t & couldn’t match. A horse that did DID train on at 4 and DID cope with the increase in weight.
His race record…
22 starts
13 wins (9 x Open WFA G1, 1 x Open WFA G2, 1 x Open WFA G3, 1 x 3yo G3, 1 x 2yo NMW)
4 seconds (3 x Open WFA G1, 1 x 3yo Listed)
1 third (Melbourne Cup)
2 fourths (Arc & Dubai World Cup)
1 fifth (Caulfield Guineas)
1 sixth (Breeder’s Cup Classic)
There isn’t a horse racing anywhere currently with a record that compares…
I for one hope that he races Frankel. Do I think that he’ll beat Frankel? He probably won’t, though to race against him he’ll probably have to drop back to a mile. One thing is for sure, Frankel will know he’s been in a race not just ground hog day against Excelebration.
He is a champion in every sense of the word!
Thats’ my 2 cents!
I think it is admirable that you Aussies come on here and defend your horse. Why not? He has done little wrong as you say. Just not the wonderhorse we were led to believe he was.
Whose fault was that? Well Ballydoyle certainly didn’t help of course but to be fair there was plenty of hype coming from Australia as well.
Another oft quoted line that came from OZ was that this horse had "an iron constitution and thrives on his racing". I remember at the back end of last season when Aiden was talking about his options and he mentioned the Arc, The Champion and The Breeders Cup. Ithought he might take in 2 out of 3 of these races and that, if he did, he might well win at least one. They ran him in all three and he won none. Now obviously the Arc was the first so he could have won that but was it really the right race for a horse that AOB has always said has plenty of speed? He got a terrible draw, was ridden out the back so that he could get the trip and never got into the race. A tough race the Arc but this horse thrives on his racing so a couple of weeks later….
Off to Ascot for The Champion. I was there and he ran a stormer only being denied close home by a brilliant gelding. Might he have won if he hadn’t run at Longchamp? We’ll never know but my opinion is he would have. That was another tough race but he thrives on his racing so a couple of weeks later…..
Off to the States for a crack at the Breeders Cup on an alien surface. Travels really well but fades in the straight. Why? We know he stays. Could it be the poor thing was feckin knackered?!!!!
In trying to win everything they succeeded in winning nothing.
BUT WHO SAID HE COULD TAKE SO MANY RACES? I’m afraid it originated in Australia when he ran in four races in 23 days culminating in the Melbourne Cup!!!
Seeing this horse in the flesh he looks as impressive an individual as you could hope to see. His form is of a very high class. But in my opinion he has been over-raced.
I would love SYT to take on Frankel over a mile. Perhaps you guys are right that he will give him more to think about than Excelebration. I would personally doubt it but that’s just my opinion. The problem is I think it is highly unlikely.
If he ran in the POW he would probably start around 5-2 and be joint favourite. He would have a serious chance of winning. If he runs in the QA he would be 6/7-1 and would have less chance of winning and a chance of being thrashed which would damage his reputation even more. The percentage call would be to run in the POW but I hope you guys get your wish and he takes on our genuine wonderhorse.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
How in heavens name do you guys come to the conclusion that he’s best at 2000m?
He’s never run shorter than that in Europe!
In Australia he ran at 1400 1600 1800 2000 2040 and a single run at 3200 in which he failed to stay.
2000 in the UK is more like 2200-2400 in Australia. 1600-1800 in UK is more like 1800-2000 in Aust.
You only think he’s purely a 2000+ horse because that’s all you’ve seen!
I’m not going to say he’s the best miler in Europe but I’d put my nuts that he’d carry Excellibration – over ANY distance – as long as he was trained properly for the race.
Almost every trade scribe here in the UK were unanimous if Frankel was ever, EVER going to be beaten oven a mile it would have been in the Lockinge, on his first run back after a set back.
If this was the case and Frankel was to be vunerable why oh why didn’t they put their best miler up against him. The answer is they did and he was slaughtered, even if there was a question mark about who was best, why didn’t AOB do what AOB does and throw every dart at the board instead of running an absolute no-hoper, presumably as a pacemaker knowing that Bullet Train was always going to make sure it was a thorough gallop.
If ever there was a chance to enshrine the name So You Think in folklore as a giant of the turf this was it, not running in a tinpot G1 in Ireland. The winner apart I’m pretty sure this will be the weakest all-age G1 run in the UK, Ireland or France this year.
Perhaps its in Coolmores interests to keep the Tattersalls as a Group 1. Following my discussions with Eclipse First, i have been educated regarding Pattern standards etc, and without Coolmore sending their very best to win this event it would appear the Tatts GC would be staring down the barrel of a downgrade to G2 or 3.
So it is in Coolmores interests to keep racking up the Group 1’s for their stallions, and keep this race as a Group 1 in to the bargain. Double edged sword.
That said, i agree with you i’m sure Ballydoyle feel Excellebration is a better miler than So You Think, i doubt they are wrong.
HGM – I would doubt he would end up rated 128-130. He is currently rated 125 (as is Workforce incidentally) and i’m puzzled why you think he’ll improve 5lb if you think he was flattered last season?
I don’t know why you keep banging on about the King George, the Prince of Wales takes more winning than that does nowadays and SYT appears to be best over 10f, in Europe anyway. And by the way – Duke of Marmalade won the KG!
Are you for real………..who the hell uses BHA ratings when discussing Global rankings?
So You Think wouldn’t get anywhere near Excelebration on the mile, nevermind Frankel. He took bloody ages to get past Workforce, a 1 mile and a half horse, and never seemed to genuinely be able to outpace Snow Fairy or Cirrus Des Aigles, hardly speed horses themselves. And, for all the training bullshit, he could be trained as a quaterhorse for all I care, there’s no way he would have matched Excelebration, Canford Cliffs, Dream Ahead for speed. There’s a reason why they picked to run in the weakest group 1 of the season, rather than take on Frankel.
So You Think wouldn’t get anywhere near Excelebration on the mile, nevermind Frankel. He took bloody ages to get past Workforce, a 1 mile and a half horse, and never seemed to genuinely be able to outpace Snow Fairy or Cirrus Des Aigles, hardly speed horses themselves. And, for all the training bullshit, he could be trained as a quaterhorse for all I care, there’s no way he would have matched Excelebration, Canford Cliffs, Dream Ahead for speed. There’s a reason why they picked to run in the weakest group 1 of the season, rather than take on Frankel.
Cirrus Des Aigles is just about the best middle distance galloper on the planet!
Hardly a speed horse? French trained?
Seabird you’re talking to Aussies about what a speed horse is…..I think we’ve got that topic covered pretty good as a nation – don’t you?
HGM – I would doubt he would end up rated 128-130. He is currently rated 125 (as is Workforce incidentally) and i’m puzzled why you think he’ll improve 5lb if you think he was flattered last season?
I don’t know why you keep banging on about the King George, the Prince of Wales takes more winning than that does nowadays and SYT appears to be best over 10f, in Europe anyway. And by the way – Duke of Marmalade won the KG!
Are you for real………..who the hell uses BHA ratings when discussing Global rankings?
What are you referring to then?
Funny but it was only after he was beaten that that arguement was used to down the winner. In fact most race readers were very impressed by the Derby winners previous race that year.
Called regression for a reason
Regressing by the time of your 4yo year? It’s called an excuse. Not even 100% mature by then. Regression? I don’t think so.
I agree with the Aussie – Workforce ran to form over 10f in the Eclipse and was beaten by a better horse.
HGM – can you reply to my question please, i’m intrigued after your condescending post.
To train the winners of the One Thousand Guineas,the Two Thousand Guineas, the Oaks and the Derby all in the same year has to be the greatest training feat of all times.Now only the Leger remains.Surely Aidan, who trained Istabrack to win four times at Cheltenham and Yeats to win four Gold Cups deserves all the accolades as a trainer for this performance?
I would argue that it’s less a feat of training and more the result of statistical probability. If a trainer is given a sufficient number of top class horses to train then he is bound to produce Classic winners.
Real feats of training involve getting horses with physical/mental problems to win races or bringing a horse back from a long layoff to win first time out.
Using Tuffers criteria, I’d nominate the late Martin Jarvis for training Rakti to win at Group 1 level.
My vote would go to Rod Millman for training Sergeant Cecil, once struggling in 0-50 handicaps to win the Ebor, Cesarewich, Yorkshire Cup, Lonsdale Cup, Northumberland Plate and Prix du Cadran all in the space of two years – remarkable.
Using Tuffers criteria, I’d nominate the late Martin Jarvis for training Rakti to win at Group 1 level.
Yes agree with that, Rakti was supremely talented but a bit of a nutter but the great
Michael
Jarvis got him winning at the highest level.
Anyone with a good knowledge of horses can train a decent horse to win a race….That’s the easy part. The tough part is making it pay and consistently sending out winners
Aiden O’Brien and his team stand out..it’s alright saying he has millions behind him but there’s no taking it away from the man under immense pressure just keeps producing one Classic winner after another.
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