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By the way Aidan, don’t for a second fool yourself that its AOB who is campaigning the horses vigourously, AOB is a puppet on string, John Magnier calls the shots end of story.
So why are you criticising O’Brien for running all these horses? Doh!
As for Excellent Art he was one of many runners AOB had in the French Guineas, he was a big outsider and his unlucky run gave O Brien a clue to the relative merit of the horse.
He was 6/1!
So where does this put martin pipe and his record breaking achievements then?
Im not a big Pipe fan in many ways, but he revolutionised many aspects of training and his methods were certainly ahead of the time. That would be much closer to my definition of a "genius"
Ed Dunlop is clearly a genius too for the "vigorous" and "successful" campaigning of Ouija Board
“By the way Aidan, don’t for a second fool yourself that its AOB who is campaigning the horses vigourously, AOB is a puppet on string, John Magnier calls the shots end of story.â€
By the way Aidan, don’t for a second fool yourself that its AOB who is campaigning the horses vigourously, AOB is a puppet on string, John Magnier calls the shots end of story
LOL. Old laugh a minute Magnier doesnt look like the sort of bloke you could tell what to do with his plans
But AOB has come up trumps keeping the best horses on the go. Im sure its been a pretty tall order at times
- Total Posts 438
So why are you criticising O’Brien for running all these horses?
I know that the question’s aimed at MM, and I’m sure that he’ll answer in due course, but my problem isn’t so much with O’Brien himself as with those in the media and elsewhere who seem to think that he’ s the best thing since sliced bread. A very good trainer? Undoubtedly. A genius? Not by a long chalk.
Without the elite stock, he’s a ordinary 12% trainer in handicaps. It’s not O’Briens doing but Ballydoyle is just a factory designed to swiftly sift out the elite and discard the rest.
Without the elite stock, he’s a ordinary 12% trainer in handicaps. It’s not O’Briens doing but Ballydoyle is just a factory designed to swiftly sift out the elite and discard the rest
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Is this a bad thing?
They’ve enough pattern class horses to focus on and juveniles to train up and try on the course that they’re not going to have much time to devote to the "lesser" horses.
It’s a bit like saying "Man United’s youth/reserve set up is designed to sift out the elite and discard the rest".
What else would it be?
Steve
There have been many trainers who have had plenty impeccably bred horses and plenty cash thrown at their operations who have failed to deliver a fraction of the success O’Brien has delivered for his employers.
There have been many trainers who have had plenty impeccably bred horses and plenty cash thrown at their operations who have failed to deliver a fraction of the success O’Brien has delivered for his employers.
You have failed to mention any individual Dave.
AOB has had hundreds and I stress hundreds of impeccably bred horses that also failed miserably.
And of course when you have the best Danehills {unfortunately deceased} the best Sadlers Wells, two of the most successful sires of all time, you have a definite edge over a lot of fellow trainers.For instance was Michael Schumacher really so superior than the other drivers, as he was invariably in the best car, if he won the world title his team usually won the constructors title.
One person who I can say the word genius can be used for success at his given sport is Tiger Woods, now he didn’t do anything to help the human race or anything, but his natural talent is unquestionable, in comparison AOB and Michael Shumachers success has been aided by superior horses & superior car, so basically they can’t even be talked about in the same breath as Tiger Woods.Schumacher actually won his first drivers championship in a car widely acknowledged as inferior to Williams.
Schumacher then went to Ferrari when the team was in the doldrums and lifted them up and won championships with them. Any F1 expert or fan would laugh at the suggestion Schumacher was not one of the greatest drivers in history. The McLarens were much the faster car this year…they won nothing.
Keep digging MM
If the ostriches take their head out of the sand for a moment, and look at the big picture, and stop thinking that AOB is some sort of superior being, I might just stop.
Its horse racing after all, I think horses win races don’t they ?I’m not the biggest fan of Ballydoyle, in fact I think they take a lot more out of the sport then they ever put back in. Stoute or Gosden for example would probably do just as well as Aiden O Brien given similar firepower.
My definition of genius would have the traits of creativity and originality attached to it, so that would rule AOB out for me. Thats not he say he isn’t very good at what he does, he clearly is and I certainly admire his passion and enthusiasm.
Keep digging MM
If the ostriches take their head out of the sand for a moment, and look at the big picture, and stop thinking that AOB is some sort of superior being, I might just stop.
Its horse racing after all, I think horses win races don’t they ?MM, nobody has said that just that he’s a great trainer. Nobody but you put the kibosh on your great trainers wouldn;t need to run eight horses by kindly pointing out its Magnier’s decision. You’ve managed to ignore all points about his exploits in NH and finally to say that Michael Schumacher won everything because of the car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I suggest you look at Ferrari’s performance for the preceding five years before schumacher turned up, brought along Ross Braun, teamed up with Todt and turned the scuderia into the dominant force it is.
Your ignorance is becoming embarassing…. Perhaps take on board what people are saying.. Or at least try and provide counter arguments of some merit sort rather than using badly researched analogies which are wholly inaccurate..
You might not like O’Brien or schumacher but to say they’re no good because of the tools they use is to be honest ridiculous. Schumacher is 7 time world champion for """"" sake…
Keep digging MM
If the ostriches take their head out of the sand for a moment, and look at the big picture, and stop thinking that AOB is some sort of superior being, I might just stop.
Its horse racing after all, I think horses win races don’t they ?MM, nobody has said that just that he’s a great trainer. Nobody but you put the kibosh on your great trainers wouldn;t need to run eight horses by kindly pointing out its Magnier’s decision. You’ve managed to ignore all points about his exploits in NH and finally to say that Michael Schumacher won everything because of the car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I suggest you look at Ferrari’s performance for the preceding five years before schumacher turned up, brought along Ross Braun, teamed up with Todt and turned the scuderia into the dominant force it is.
Your ignorance is becoming embarassing…. Perhaps take on board what people are saying.. Or at least try and provide counter arguments of some merit sort rather than using badly researched analogies which are wholly inaccurate..
You might not like O’Brien or schumacher but to say they’re no good because of the tools they use is to be honest ridiculous. Schumacher is 7 time world champion for """"" sake…
"Please take on board what people are saying" this statement applies to you also, Aragorn. Obviously you didn’t read my post thoroughy or just saw what you wanted to see. I never said that Schumacher was no good I just asked if he was so far superior to everybody else, because of the resources available, that argument also applies to AOB.
And also I mentioned AOB exploits at NH on a previous post, where I said his wife deserved as much if not more of the credit, it was a husband and wife team after all.
Take Michael Stoute and Kribensis, James Fanshawe and Royal Gait, any trainer can cut the mustard at both codes if the horse is good enough. There is umpteen dual purpose trainers in both Ireland and England so AOB’s achievements in this regard is hardly outstanding.
So before you accuse people of ignorance, try reading peoples posts properly. Ignorant I certainly am not Aragorn.My $0.02.
AOB deserves to be considered among the very best trainers of the last 50 years. Of that there is no doubt. He understands horses and has an undoubted talent for getting the best out of them for the most part.
He does, however, make mistakes (some serious) and the very fact that he has such terrific material to work with will always bring people to wonder what would happen if there should be a falling out with Coolmore and whether Aiden would shine as brightly in another yard with lesser horses more cheaply bought and humbly bred.
My own view is that he’s probably as good as Stoute/Cecil/Gosden but not significantly better. I would place MVO’B above all of them.
On a lighter note, I think that he is to be commended for not yet having lost his cool with the goons that he is sometimes interviewed by before and after the races.
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