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If you look at his 5 year record on the RP website, there are a ton of horses circa 35% of all his runners had no wins and just one to three lifetime runs. Random clicking shows the vast majority of these did not make it into any other training hands. Wonder where they all got to.
Madman, I don’t know whether someone at coolmore has caused you to go on like you do but as usual you feel the need to drag them through the mire..
Time will show that Aidan O’Brien is one of the best, if not the best, of his generation. Despite the fact that, as you put it, he can’t cope, he’s going to win the UK trainers championship this year, whilst running the majority of his horses in Ireland…. Oh and he’ll beat Stoute in the process..
So… Do you need me to draw you a picture?
Everyone on this thread is blind, daft or xenophobic if they can’t see the guy is an excellent trainer…
I remember one occasion at the Derby. I was paddockside and O’Brien had several runners. One of them, I forget which now, was proving intractable as he was being led around. From memory he was the stable string but was well enough fancied. Anyway, he had two handlers with him and despite their best efforts the horse wouldn’t settle, jig-jogging about the place. They led him to the usual O’Brien saddling area, on the paddock lawn on the left as you face the grandstand, and the horse was now beginning to get really worked up.
O’Brien, fresh from saddling one of the others walked over and approached the horse, putting his hands onto it’s neck. The effect was instantaneous, the horse immediately, and I mean immediately, stood stock still. They could have set down the lead rein and the beast would not have moved a muscle. They saddled with no difficulty and it paraded thereafter quite calmly.
In many years of watching people with horses it was one of the most remarkable things I have seen.
Aidan O’Brien, as many who know significantly more about these matters than I are on record as saying, understands horses in a way only the very best and gifted trainers (the likes of Cecil, Stoute, VOB, Hern, Murless and Fabre) do.
His record speaks for itself and to try to decry his achievements as being the result of a silver spoon is nonsensical.
His record speaks for itself and to try to decry his achievements as being the result of a silver spoon is nonsensical.
But the silver spoon certainly hasn’t done him any harm.
I for one don’t subscribe to the theory be it a trainer or jockey that some how their "God Like" if they win a big race or three. It seems a lot of people forget that its the horse that actually wins the race.
John Magnier certainly deserves all the accolades, as he virtually single handedly built up Coolmore to be the all dominant force that it is today, but the way they are campaigning their horses these days borders on the ridiculous. Run as many as we can in every Group race if one of them wins, a career at stud beckons, the O Brien yard is more like a factory these days, the conveyor belts keep chucking them out surely 3 or 4 will mop up a good few Group races between them and cover our expenses.Oh by the way Cormack, did you not notice the hypodermic needle in your Gods hand, O Brien that is.
Oh by the way Cormack, did you not notice the hypodermic needle in your Gods hand, O Brien that is.
Deary me…
Madman, I don’t know whether someone at coolmore has caused you to go on like you do but as usual you feel the need to drag them through the mire..
Time will show that Aidan O’Brien is one of the best, if not the best, of his generation. Despite the fact that, as you put it, he can’t cope, he’s going to win the UK trainers championship this year, whilst running the majority of his horses in Ireland…. Oh and he’ll beat Stoute in the process..
So… Do you need me to draw you a picture?
Everyone on this thread is blind, daft or xenophobic if they can’t see the guy is an excellent trainer…
Which just proves that the UK Trainers Championship is flawed.
Effectively you could have a masterful trainer, who takes outcasts and turns them into winners, plans their races brilliantly, and notches up 40 or so wins from his run down stables – yet, Aiden O’brien can come to England, win the Derby and be Champion trainer.
Who is the better trainer? The guy who is willing to take in the rejects and turns them into multiple winners on limited resources, while accumulating only £200,000 in prize money over a season – or a guy who gets gifted a wonder horse because of his owners wallet, wins one race, and earns £700,000.
Like the Jockey’s Championship, the Trainers’s Championship should go on number of winners in a season, not on the amount of prize money won. I’m not having a go at AOB here, I just think it’s a disgrace how the Champion trainer is decided. You could have one trainer, pick up a wonder horse who wins the Guineas, the Derby, the Eclipse, the King George etc, and he would be classed as a better trainer than someone who trains 100 winners in a season. Where’s the logic?
Mike
In ther USA isn’t the jockeys Championship decided by prize money and not winners?
Back to AP O’Brien, I think the man is a genius, there isn’t another trainer currently who’s done what he’s done NH and Flat (Elsie’s not far off), he’d be even better if he still had jumpers.Though recently he has been entering lots of horses in the top races, maybe he doesn’t know how good/bad they really are.
Though recently he has been entering lots of horses in the top races, maybe he doesn’t know how good/bad they really are.
They should stop coming 1-2-3 and make it easy for him
I think what irritates me is how loosely this "genius" tag gets thrown about. Not just in this sport but many others too.
A lot of this has to do with image. The slightly nerdy demeanor encourages this stuff. Not that he cultivates it of course.
Cant we just say that hes a very fine trainer? Hes handled some horses superbly and conversely maybe some others havent fulfilled expectations. Thats par for the course for a top trainer of course
he has been successfull, but who wouldn’t be with the best breeds and an endless bankroll.
Simon T Lewis.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Which just proves that the UK Trainers Championship is flawed.
Effectively you could have a masterful trainer, who takes outcasts and turns them into winners, plans their races brilliantly, and notches up 40 or so wins from his run down stables – yet, Aiden O’brien can come to England, win the Derby and be Champion trainer.
Not sure you quite understand the concept of champion trainer? Champion doesn’t necessarily infer best/most talented.
Also, really don’t think number of wins would be at all viable – it would just encourage certain types of trainers to run their horses as often (or too often) when a champion trainer title beckons.
Well Sal, can you explain away the ridiculous situation, where he had eight "no less" runners in the Derby. That to me suggests he is not too sure of the relative merits of a lot of his horses.
There are owners to keep happy as well, Marz. There always are. And if those owners have anything halfway decent in training with O’Brien (or whosoever else) in a given year, they are perfectly entitled to have it represent them in a race of the magnitude of the Derby.
Was O’Brien’s octet in a big-field Derby this year really any more or less ridiculous than Michael Dickinson running five in the 1983 Gold Cup (a race ultimately heralded as the greatest of all time in the Racing Post poll this year rather than gross over-indulgence on the part of all concerned)? Would you have been a dissenting voice in the crowd if, against huge statistical odds, he’d saddled the first eight home?
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
can you explain away the ridiculous situation, where he had eight "no less" runners in the Derby. That to me suggests he is not too sure of the relative merits of a lot of his horses.
I don’t see what’s so ridiculous about him having 8 runners in the Derby.
Let’s be fair, apart from the AO’B horses, the Derby looked like it could be a one horse race.
As O’Brien didn’t have a standout colt (SoF turned out to be the best horse he had), why not run a bunch of G2 winners in the race and hope to pick up some prize money & black type?
And, if Authorized hadn’t acted on the course or underperformed for some other reason, Ballydoyle had a number of horses that could have taken the race.
Steve
Well Sal, can you explain away the ridiculous situation, where he had eight "no less" runners in the Derby. That to me suggests he is not too sure of the relative merits of a lot of his horses.
There are owners to keep happy as well, Marz. There always are. And if those owners have anything halfway decent in training with O’Brien (or whosoever else) in a given year, they are perfectly entitled to have it represent them in a race of the magnitude of the Derby.
Was O’Brien’s octet in a big-field Derby this year really any more or less ridiculous than Michael Dickinson running five in the 1983 Gold Cup (a race ultimately heralded as the greatest of all time in the Racing Post poll this year rather than gross over-indulgence on the part of all concerned)? Would you have been a dissenting voice in the crowd if, against huge statistical odds, he’d saddled the first eight home?
gc
Most of the owners at Ballydoyle own shares in virtually everyone of the horses, Just run in the individual owners colours, be it Mr or Mrs John Magnier, Derek Smith, Michael Tabor, "one for all, all for one".
What I am basically getting at Jeremy, AOB’s achievements have to be put into perspective when we are dealing with equine superstars, with the backing he has success is inevitable, Mikky Mo has got it right, O Briens achievements should be judged along say John Quinn who has won numerous top races both flat and jumps with fairly mediocre horses espiecially when you compare them to AOB’s blue bloods.
The Michael Dickinson five was not as great an anchievement (as you point out, over indulgence) when you consider that he had 3 of the first 4 in the betting Combs Ditch been the other. Also if my memory serves me there wasn’t too many finishers.
I wasn’t surprised that it was voted greatest on the RP poll, as jump fans are much more sentimental, " if you like" when it comes to their heroes. As jump stars stay around a lot longer then the flat superstars who have stud duties to perform.
AOB & MD are not GOD’s, their success should be judged more with unflattering eyes, and put into perspective regarding the resources available to them.I think Cormack thought he was after seeing Jesus Christ, John the Baptist and Nostradamus all rolled into one, just because AOB came over and the horse became passive.
Presumably you don’t rate Vincent O’Brien that highly either?
O’Brien got to his position BECAUSE he transformed poor horses into winners over jumps. Look what he did with Life Of A Lord….In his first season as a jumps trainer he broke prize money record when he won the jumps title.He broke the record for number of wins in a year in only his second campaign. He is the only trainer in history to have the 1-2-3 in the Galway Plate. He doesn’t just break records with the blue bloods he has right now….incidentally how many thought Excellent Art had Champion 3 year old miler prospects at the start of the year based on his two year old runs?
I can struggle to think of a trainer that has a) campaigned so vigourously b) and successfully so many horses like Giants Causeway, Rock Of Gibraltar, Peeping Fawn, Dylan Thomas, High Chaparral etc to name a few.
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…. a) campaigned so vigourously b) and successfully
Let’s attribute the "genius" tag to Bill O’Gorman, then, for his handling of Provideo and Timeless Times.
I can struggle to think of a trainer that has a) campaigned so vigourously b) and successfully so many horses like Giants Causeway, Rock Of Gibraltar, Peeping Fawn, Dylan Thomas, High Chaparral etc to name a few.
The reason those horses were campaigned so vigourously is that their all Coolmore stallions/mares or will be in the near future. Unlike in VOB’s day the horse were quickly packed off to stud usually to the States as the Yanks were paying way over the odds, a Carrot Sangster Magnier & Co, just couldn’t resist. And its those millions that helped Magnier build up the all conquering Coolmore.
By the way Aidan, don’t for a second fool yourself that its AOB who is campaigning the horses vigourously, AOB is a puppet on string, John Magnier calls the shots end of story.
As for Excellent Art he was one of many runners AOB had in the French Guineas, he was a big outsider and his unlucky run gave O Brien a clue to the relative merit of the horse.
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