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What if public perception is that NH racing should be banned altogether because all the sport does is whip horses or get them killed jumping, do we just go along with that request?
According to the recent study the fatalities to all runners is now at 0.2% and what did a Labour MP say, when will it be at zero!!! A lot of these people do not bother to educate themselves on basic horse racing matters, they just hear the RSPCA one or two times a year in the media take shots at how cruel racing is and believe it.
Yes all reasonable steps to ensure that racing in general should be as safe as possible should be taken where needed but not just at the whims of a minority who neither care about nor understand the sport itself.
Now I don’t view myself as an expert on racing but I have been watching (both on TV and at racecourses themselves) racing for 30+ yrs and personally nothing I viewed on Saturday made me think that those fences were any bigger than last year or unsafe to either horse or jockey.
In the 4 chase races there was a total of 25 runners, 7 of which either fell (6) or unseasted their riders (1). At the corresponding meeting last year for the same 4 races (run on heavy ground) there was a total of 28 runners, 4 of which either fell (2) or unseated their rider (2) with a further 6 also failing to complete.
So on much quicker ground this year you had an additional 4 fallers compared to last year – oddly enough the graduation chase was only responsible for 1 of the additional 4 fallers.
Was it really an issue with the fences being too stiff or a case of horses travelling a little too fast into them and not being able to adjust quickly enough????
I think you’re slightly confused mate. I’m probably the most non PC person you will ever speak too in your life. I’m one of those experts, at putting ones foot in ones mouth regarding stuff like this. Being such an expert at upsetting these type of people though, I do understand them rather well. My work, is involved in a sport very similar too horse racing as far as the PC brigade are concerned. You can say whatever you want about pandering too a minority… I have some news for you LD73, and I’m afraid it’s all very bad. We are the minority now LD73 in 2018, the ball park has changed. Because of this fact, we have too change, or we will be gone. It’s the attitude “well we’ve always done it this way” that will get us banned in the end. In todays world, you either change with the times… Or you are going to have some PC nutter, taking aversion to what you like too do. We need to be clever. Being clever, is not letting silly old men put our beloved past time in peril on live TV on a Saturday.
Another scenario for you, one which I will guarantee happened too. On Sat when that bloke from Haydock, was banging on about the new tough fences… How many house wives, do you think blurted out… “They should make you jump the tough fences you horrid old git”? In 1980, not one house wife would have said it. In 2018 on Saturday, hundreds or thousands would have said it, I’ll bet you. Every horse that hit a fence, or fell after he said that… The comments, would have been about his words, the new tough fences, if they were too blame or not. It leads too conversations regarding “is horse racing cruel really”. He does not need to say those words on live TV, with a great big dirty grin on his face…. “They said our course was easy… We’ve shown em”. I’m so very non PC, and even I cringed.
Understanding these simple little facts, will serve us very well going forwards I’d say. People are constantly watching our sport LD73, not like me, or you, for enjoyment… But, just waiting for our sport to mess up. We do not need too make it easy for them mate, we need too make it really hard.
Apologies if you thought I was labelling you as a PC brigade merchant, as that wasn’t my intention.
We have to find a balance and defend our corner more robustly (obviously with people who don’t make things worse or make themselves look stupid) and not just cave to people with little to no knowledge (or love) of the sport and let them dictate how the sport deals with issues regarding safety/welfare simply to appease public perception (especially when most of them would much prefer racing be banned anyway).
We must also remember that racing happens to be the 2nd most watched/attended sport behind football, so a lot of the public don’t seem to share that same perception that keeps getting rammed down our throat by the media.
Whilst I am not a fan of the ‘we have always done it that way’ fall back position, it doesn’t automatically mean that taking that particular stance is wrong and that making changes is always the right way to go.
I totally understand every single one of your points LD73. Some interesting quotes from an article on the RP website currently.
“Both men were speaking in the wake of Saturday’s Betfair Chase fixture, after which Haydock’s fences, which had been deemed too high and stiff by a BHA inspector in the days prior to the meeting, were questioned by jockeys.”
So a BHA inspector told them that the fences were to high, and too stiff last week. So why were they not sorted then? And why was the course spokesman on air bragging about them even more so after being told that? This is all surreal.
What I said earlier about if one of those much loved chasers had been lost on Saturday… Times that by ten, or twenty in light of that little nugget of information. That silly old fool from Haydock on live ITV, is so very lucky, and so is NH racing.“If a fence is designed right and a horse makes a mistake he deserves to fall. However, a fence shouldn’t bring a horse down because it’s designed wrong.” Robbie Power.
Isn’t it just Mark. Complete and utter amateurs I so agree!
Anyone who has commented on this thread, defending those fences, which earlier in the thread I commented “were the biggest I had ever seen to my eye, in thirty years of watching NH racing”. Please read that article, look at the couple of comments I highlighted. Puts a slightly different spin on it would you not say LD73 and Steeplechasing? None of us knew that I presume, I certainly did not. If you think the fences were okay or not, BHA inspector was there last week, and told them the fences were to big and to stiff the RP say. So what did the course do? Say sod it, we’re going with the big ones anyway? Why was there some idiot on live TV, boasting about the bigger fences if the inspectors had told them to sort them? There’s going to be more fall out from this. I maintain, NH racing was very lucky on Saturday. If that one comment about BHA inspectors is true, heads should roll at Haydock, and the smiling old buffoon interviewed on live TV, should be first.
That interview with Power regarding the fences design / Irish v English etc is interesting and hopefully ITV will expand on it
His comments about that tricky down hill fence at Cheltenham, are spot on Mark. Sounds like common sense to me. It seems like the people in charge of NH racing, have no common sense between them. The fence claims a lot of fallers, why not put a bigger take off board on it? As he says, it just helps the horse see the fence better. It’s not changing anything about the size or the position of the fence, so why’s it not been done then if people like Robbie Power can see it? All this winds me up a little bit, totally clueless they are Mark.
Exactly, NR
And it’s not just the fences :
There’s a patch of land down the back at Chepstow which really bothers me – it’s unnecessarily uneven, there’s often some random piece of hurdle or barrier lying on the floor and it’s almost like a JCB went through there and they just never levelled it off afterwards.
I had heard that Haydock had already made alterations in accordance to the BHA inspection but I just wonder how an inspector on the ground can come to the conclusion that a fence is to stiff or big – how would he be able to test if it was or not?
I think the take off board query does have great merit in possibly trialing them at various courses and I know there is the fact that they are going to try using different colours other than orange that are supposed to be more visable to horses eye sight.
It was also interesting to see this comment as well: “In my opinion, the biggest problem with fences isn’t their size or stiffness,” said Skelton.
There is also this article that makes for interesting reading as well: https://www.racingpost.com/news/latest/fences-for-courses-clerk-barry-johnson-on-how-britain-s-fences-differ/355350
Nausered, I got into racing in the late 60s, long before the National course was changed. Proper steeplechasing is kind of in my veins from then. But you are right, the public simply won’t accept visually unreasonable risks, and whatever our personal thoughts are, we must protect the sport.
You’re a touch older than me Steeplechasing then, I got into it in the 80’s. I swear, I wish we still lived in a world, where all I said previously on this thread, did not matter. But unfortunately it does in 2018.
You’re being kind – likely more than touch older, though I was only 13 when I watched my first Gold Cup (Woodland Venture) so am not totally ancient!
I was born in a Red Rum year and had only a casual interest until my mid 20s.
Love the sport now and it frustrates me to see a lack of proactive governance from the BHA and the various racecourse, trainers and owners groups.
Exeter clerk says the diversity of fences is one of the things that makes British racing great but I’m not convinced
I was forty five the week before last Steeplechasing, sometimes I feel much older, most of the time, much younger though. Age is just a number mate, I know some seventy year olds who are in fact thirty in reality. And some twenty one year olds, who are really fifty. I was a child of the London rave generation, I was seventeen in 1990. At fourteen, I was already out every weekend, all night raving (mum and dad thought it was sleepovers). Kids today haven’t got a single clue, if it’s not on a playstation, or the internet. If I took a couple of 2018 eighteen year olds to a proper early 90’s rave, they’d probably pass out at the entrance to the deserted warehouse, or in the lane on the way to the field. I tell my twenty three year old son this all of the time when he winds me up about being old. He loves that.
Frustrates me too Mark. They need to sort themselves out mate, and fast. NH is in the main, run by seventy year olds, who are living in the dark ages. You can’t live in the dark ages in 2018 when animals are involved, you have to be on top of your game at all times.
Standardise the size of the fences and take off boards and nothing can go wrong.
To be fair to Cheltenham they did change the positioning of that third last a few years ago due to the complaints with it, they’re pretty re-active the cheltenham board. Haydock on the other hand are a complete shambles, ground gets over watered basically every meeting and now they’re increasing fence sizes for no apparent reason. Kirkland
If I remember rightly, the criticism of Haydock used to be they had too soft fences – with horses taking too many liberties. They were right to make them stiffer, but have now probably gone too far. I agree, Mr Tellwrong should’ve been sacked a long time ago. Always knew he doesn’t know how to produce decent ground and doesn’t know the difference between good-soft ground from good-firm. Now it seems he can increase fence sizes/stiffness without informing those who need to know.
Think it was the second last fence at Cheltenham they changed positioning? Or was it both third and second last? Second last is easier now. Used to be very unfair, where good jumpers paid the price for taking it too well and crumpling on landing. Still not ideal, imo too close to the turn. Coming a little wider off the home turn an advantage; probably because those on the inner appear not to meet it on a full stride.
Value Is Everything
What I said earlier about if one of those much loved chasers had been lost on Saturday… Times that by ten, or twenty in light of that little nugget of information. That silly old fool from Haydock on live ITV, is so very lucky, and so is NH racing.
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