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Grand National 2017

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Viewing 17 posts - 307 through 323 (of 446 total)
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  • #1294598
    Avatar photoVenture to Cognac
    Moderator
    • Total Posts 15047

    Ok, no worries Ginger.

    I was going to do one for my DLAP thread, but wouldn’t put it on this one, as I was going to leave it for your own, as it’s normally a cracker, and one horse by horse guide is more than enough. I normally do one for friends, colleagues etc, and I nearly framed last years lol, though the 2015 one was quickly put in the bin…….horribly wrong in every way, I wrote off Many Clouds and Saint Are :unsure:

    I’ll wait and see how you get on, and hopefully you manage it :good:

    #1294600
    Avatar photoVenture to Cognac
    Moderator
    • Total Posts 15047

    He was my first horse bet for this last April Sheriff, and although you never want to be too confident about your selections in this, I’m just a little surprised he isn’t favourite.

    Although number 19 on the current list, I strongly suspect that at his peak, he’s the best horse in the race, along with More of That, and it’s testament to his connections that he comes here off of only 150. It doesn’t sit well with many, the way these horses are campaigned, and I get that, but Elliot has been pretty transparent the last few years with what he is doing with him, yet he’s still consistently underrated.

    It’s hard to forget that ride given to him in The 2015 National, when Carberry decided to make his move as Many Clouds was already crossing the line, and although I doubt he would have beaten Clouds that day, he should have made the frame with ease, and what it did show, was that a win over 4 Miles, 3 weeks earlier at Cheltenham, was no barrier to his chances at Aintree. It’s easier to forget though, that he should actually be coming here off of a 4 timer at The Cheltenham Festival, having got the last fence wrong in The 2014 Kim Muir, and going down narrowly to Spring Heeled. What a feat that would have been, and having went down by the narrowest margins in that seasons Paddy Power at Leapordstown as well, then it becomes clear that when they want him ready, they get him ready.

    He also has a best Topspeed over Hurdles of 132, and though I couldn’t claim to be an expert on such matters as those, a good TS figure looks as if it might just be becoming, more of an asset here.

    Connections were caught out last year, when they had him too well handicapped, and they got stung by the absurdly low number of defectors. No such problems this time, and at this moment, I think one of the biggest stats against him is that he’s ran in the race before, as I always prefer to be with a horse who hasn’t ran in it before, but for my favourite horse in training, I’ll gladly (and conveniently lol) overlook that stat. As Peterh rightly states, his preferred running style might not be ideal either, but it’s all about timing with these horses, and with the right jock on board, I wouldn’t be too worried, and it was encouraging to see him more prominent throughout The Cross Country.

    It might be the heart ruling the head, but I just love the horse to bits, and think he has a massive chance.

    Good luck with him Sheriff :good:

    #1294604
    Jaymo74
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    • Total Posts 232

    I totally agree with every word of your Cause of Causes analysis. I mentioned in a Cheltenham thread that this horse has been a handicap shark all his career. He’s a Graded horse whos been expertly placed in handicaps for the big occassions. The fences could be his biggest opponent rather than the other 39 runners. I’ve tonked it @33s A/P and 18s NRNB. Hopefully he can regain my ‘Melon Millions’ from Cheltenham. Others i’ve played for smaller stakes are ; Vincente @25s, Stella Notion @66s and Saint Are @40s.

    #1294606
    Avatar photobotchy1
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    • Total Posts 6192

    I mentioned in a Cheltenham thread that this horse has been a handicap shark all his career.

    You can say that again Jaymo. Last year i had him backed for another race at Cheltenham and by the time i knew it i missed the price on him for the race he ran in.

    I have not even watched any of his races in Ireland this year as i just knew what would happen in them, but watched his race on TV at Cheltenham a couple of races back and had a little giggle to myself. It seems a bit crazy to say but once the money started to come for COC in the Cross Country he was certain to win that race.

    Agree totally with VTC he is massively underated for some reason and think he will go off FAV myself.

    The only thing that puts me off at this moment is that it’s the Bloody Grand National he’s running in.I will certainly lay off my stake at some point for a free bet which will make it a lot more enjoyable race to watch. :good:

    #1294608
    Avatar photoShotta Sheriff
    Participant
    • Total Posts 117

    Top stuff VTC.

    I agree with the consensus that his hold-up style is not ideal, but if the horse can find its way into contention approaching the elbow I’ll be confident the drink moneys paid for. His flat pedigree fair kicks in when he’s saw out his festival wins.

    #1294626
    Avatar photoVenture to Cognac
    Moderator
    • Total Posts 15047

    Cheers Sheriff. Just need some luck in running now hopefully.

    I like your other one as well, Pleasant Company, and I’m on him at decent odds, I’d be fairly hopeful he’d give you proper run as well. I’m very happy with his win over Thunder and Roses, as I think the runner up has had plenty of strong runs in the last 12 months, and is a player as well for this race.

    #1294631
    Red Rum 77
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4814

    VTC you’re a knowledgeable guy, :good: whats do you make of DROP OUT JOE :unsure:

    The best things in life are free.
    But you can give them to the birds and bees.

    #1294632
    Avatar photoVenture to Cognac
    Moderator
    • Total Posts 15047

    Rummy, Big fan of Drop Out Joe, and have bet him on 2 or 3 occasions, including a good few quid on him at Sandown last year. He led the field for a good way, only to weaken out of things by the railway fences.

    I think he’s a Spring/Summer horse, is a very reliable jumper, and his win at Uttoxeter earlier in the season is very hard to crab. On that run, he is ridiculously overpriced, and having bet him before, I’ve been considering adding him to my book, but there’s just a few things have put me off……..

    As impressive as that Uttoxeter win was, he’s really paid for it, and will be very high in the weights heading here, and also has to contend with this being his first run since picking up an injury after Uttoxeter. Trainer proved at Cheltenham that he can get them ready, but he just looks high enough in the weights for me, and though he clearly stays the trip, as seen at Ayr, there’s just the worry that he doesn’t stay fast enough, and won’t have much up his sleeve at the end.

    Despite the sound jumping, I can see him being an Eric’s Charm type, and being an early casualty, I don’t know why, just a feeling I have. I am (obviously) very hopeful that I’m wrong about that particular theory, and if he can clear those first few then he could be some sight in the front rank.

    The cons just outweigh the pros for me, but no question, if ready to go, he is overpriced, and if I can’t have the winner myself, I’d love to see him do it.

    Good luck if you’re betting him B-)

    #1294639
    Red Rum 77
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4814

    Thanks for the reply, VTC :good:

    I think he’ll be outclassed, and probably like you said high enough up the weights, yet looking at his wins I think he’s a long lay off horse. Longest lay off is 202 days and it’s not an isolated incident you’ve got 161,148 and 64. I know the are two wins in quick succession from his wins after a long lay off, but what I remember from Nick Mordin (his betting for a living book) about the subject that’s perfectly normal for a horse with this pattern.I don’t think he can win, but when Bet Victor opens their 6th place payout I intend to have a small wager. I thought this last year about

      RULE THE WORLD

    :-)

    The best things in life are free.
    But you can give them to the birds and bees.

    #1294640
    Avatar photoVenture to Cognac
    Moderator
    • Total Posts 15047

    Yup, BetVic is essential for those big priced runners, though I think Skybet will follow suit this year and go 6 places.

    Good luck with Joe, and I’m increasingly confident that Bless The Wings, and Ballynagour are the 2 outsiders to side with here. Hopefully some of us can get some nice ew returns next week

    #1294684
    moehat
    Participant
    • Total Posts 9317

    I don’t think Bless the Wings is likely to get in; pity as I thought his Cheltenham run was pretty good [and I seem to have accidentally backed him twice…]

    #1294712
    buckers
    Participant
    • Total Posts 712

    I am looking at 2 outsiders here after the withdrawal of my early bet Minella Rocco.

    I like Stellar Notion and Maggie, and will definitely bet one of the Gigginstown horses.

    #1294720
    atthepost
    Participant
    • Total Posts 238

    I HAVE JUST gone in again and lumped on More Of That at 20/1 ew He just stands out so much on the card running off 11-5! I can’t believe perfect canidaite is rated 1 pound lower then him! I think JONJO has sorted out his wind. He is coming back to himself and i loved his runs in the Irish GC and gold cup. BG is going to ride.

    So the three horses I’m going to war with:

    Ballynagour 66/1 ew
    Measureofmydreams 66/1 ew
    More of that 70s on the machine & 20/1 ew

    That me done for this year.

    #1294965
    Avatar photoThe Ante-Post King
    Participant
    • Total Posts 8696

    I HAVE JUST gone in again and lumped on More Of That at 20/1 ew He just stands out so much on the card running off 11-5! I can’t believe perfect canidaite is rated 1 pound lower then him! I think JONJO has sorted out his wind. He is coming back to himself and i loved his runs in the Irish GC and gold cup. BG is going to ride.

    So the three horses I’m going to war with:

    Ballynagour 66/1 ew
    Measureofmydreams 66/1 ew
    More of that 70s on the machine & 20/1 ew

    That me done for this year.

    Not the sort of race to lump on anything but More of that has gone blue on Oddschecker today,20’s going fast and 12’s in a place.The closest I’ve come to a 100/1 winner was ‘Albertas run’ in the Ryanair,(90’s on the machine) but to have a 1000/1 winner would be a special day…I could afford to pay Joni to sing for me over a bottle of Chassagne Montrachet and take Jac up the Trent on my Ocean liner. :rose:

    #1294988
    Avatar photostevecaution
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 8241

    I like Lucinda Russell’s form as we approach the National. She has had 6 winners from her last 20 runners, dating back to 16th March.

    Kim Bailey on the other hand is only 1/20 of late and although getting a few placed, has not found the back of the net with some relatively short priced runners.

    Jonjo has had four winners in the last five days and is potentially peaking in time for Aintree but David Pipe is less impressive on 2/23 the past fortnight.

    It must be of concern for Blaklion fans that Nigel Twiston-Davies was just 2/60 in March and 3.33% strike rate for the month of the Cheltenham Festival.

    Paul Nicholls is potentially the form King as we approach the National. He sits 10/25 and a whopping 40% strike rate for the past fortnight.

    Perhaps something for potential backers to consider over the next few days.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #1295002
    Avatar photoVenture to Cognac
    Moderator
    • Total Posts 15047

    Both solid chances Buckers at prices, Maggio will have had this as his only target all year, while the form of Stellar Notion in handicaps this year is rock solid, particularly his second to Tiger Roll.

    I’ve decided to let my National “book” run red for the 2nd season in a row (didn’t work out too badly last year), and though I could go green right now from More of That, I just can’t do it, and all in now. Don’t like adding to that book as late in the day, but after adding Ballynagour the other day, Stellar Notion is close to being added as well.

    #1295003
    Avatar photoVenture to Cognac
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    • Total Posts 15047

    I’ve laid off a wee bit on More of That at 17’s to 19’s the last 2 days Gord, but that’ll do, and letting it run for the majority of original stake. Should be an “exciting” week :wacko:

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