- This topic has 127 replies, 28 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 4 months ago by
.
- Posts
Just watched the race back a couple of times as I was working on Saturday and couldn’t give it the full attention it deserved.
CC was obviously magnificent,but looking again I was more impressed with Coneygree than I originally was.Got tapped for toe by an exceptional,race fit horse but battled on courageously before being eased down completely after the last by RJ.He certainly retains his enthusiasm for jumping,which was always his main asset as it allows him to constantly make ground on rivals with his front running style.
If he was to have a good prep and got soft ground in the gold cup then I’m hopeful,if not entirely confident,that he could turn the form of Saturday around.I think the Bradstocks would have left a fair bit to work on and it must help that they only really have one horse of note in the yard,as they can devote all their time on getting him set for the big one.Plus of course NDB will be back on board.
Still,can’t whack Cue Card.Every time I doubt him he just keeps putting up these brilliant performances,has cost me a packet these past few years as I always seem to be against him but you can only admire a horse still doing things like that at nearly 11.
It is all very well trying to find positives for Coneygree but in reality he was beaten a long way from home. Once Cue Card ranged up the leader had nothing left to offer and it was game over very quickly. On the day Cue Card was in a different class. Had Johnson been harder on Coneygree he wouldn’t have finished that much closer. The horse was a spent force. The Bradstock’s are clearly trying to put a brave face on things but off camera I am sure they will be shocked that their star was left trailing. I don’t recall hearing all the negatives about preparation, rustiness and the ground being too soft before the race.
The view I take is that the Cue Card than ran in the Charlie Hall (needing a race)
and the Coneygree that ran in the Betfair (needing a race), if they had run against
each other I doubt there would have been much between them. I had money on Coneygree,
but other than not being happy about losing my cash, I wasn’t at all disappointed in
the race he ran. If Cue Card hadn’t been there, we would have been raving about the
easy win of Coneygree. I think the Bradstocks will rightly be very positive about his
run, he clearly needed it and will come on a ton for it (imo)I think the important thing is that he didn’t look like he had lost heart for the game,
and his jumping was top notch. A Coneygree/Cue Card/Thistlecrack Gold Cup is looking
like some race, I’m delighted I’ll be there to see it.Tizzard seemed massively bullish last week on Cue Card. When asked about Coneygree’s participation, he said something like ” i’m glad Coneygree is running, as he can give us a lead to the last fence before we pass him ”
I thought the French horse in 3rd Vezelay ran a great race also for a 7 year old.
It is all very well trying to find positives for Coneygree but in reality he was beaten a long way from home. Once Cue Card ranged up the leader had nothing left to offer and it was game over very quickly. On the day Cue Card was in a different class. Had Johnson been harder on Coneygree he wouldn’t have finished that much closer. The horse was a spent force. The Bradstock’s are clearly trying to put a brave face on things but off camera I am sure they will be shocked that their star was left trailing. I don’t recall hearing all the negatives about preparation, rustiness and the ground being too soft before the race.
Did Bradstock really say that?
Strange, Stilvi.
Appeared to run to form on heavy ground before Saturday and goes really well on at least very soft. Didn’t jump as if “rusty” either, doubt Coneygree would’ve been so short in the betting without being pretty straight. Excellent record fresh too, first time the horse has not won on reappearance. I do believe wasn’t given a hard time in the final furlong, so would’ve been a little closer. Taking that in to consideration maybe value for 10 or 12 instead of 15 lengths behind Cue Card. ie imo Coneygree can be rated only just below his Gold Cup winning form. Although he’s a 9 year old is lightly raced, so there’s still a chance of further improvement and a chance the 10 year old (11 come March) Cue Card might not be as good. No need for supporters to give up on Coneygree – particularly for the Gold Cup.Softer the ground the more chance Coneygree has of turning the tables because stamina is his strong-suit. No matter what Bradstock says – if it was Good ground at Kempton and Heavy at Leopardstown could well be Lexus-bound.
Value Is EverythingIf Coneygree continues his recovery without any issues, I’d expect to see a different horse next time, especially on better ground. That final circuit was fierce. Simon Rowlands’ analysis showed that CC ran it in an incredible time compared with the handicap chase winner.
Remarkably, Cue Card managed to record a time 14.2s quicker than 140-rated Three Faces West did in winning that handicap 35 minutes later. That is equivalent to almost a furlong and to over 50 lb in ability terms: an astonishing amount.
Coneygree by no means a back number and I suspect the ground was a big factor in him finishing so far behind.
Is Cue Card the only horse that can come on for a run then?
Let’s not forget he got beaten by dodgepot Menorah the last time,whereas Coneygree has had one race in 18 months.
Is Cue Card the only horse that can come on for a run then?
Let’s not forget he got beaten by dodgepot Menorah the last time,whereas Coneygree has had one race in 18 months.
Any horse can come on for the run MC, but – looking at their form – some can be seen to come on more than others… And you can usually see after they’ve gone past the line – comparing it to past form. I thought (with connections confidence before Wetherby) Cue Card would be fit enough for the Charlie Hall. However, it was clear afterwards Cue Card was a long way below form. Yes, he did come on a lot for the run, but in hindsight he did the same in 2015 too (both Charlies nowhere near form of Betfairs).
Although Coneygree won the 2015 Gold Cup his form going in to the Betfair was inferior, Cue Card official rating 176 to 172 Coneygree. Timeform had them a lot further apart than that. After Wetherby there was a question mark whether the Tizzard horse’s age was catching up with him, which made the two horses closer in the betting.
If you look at Simon Rowlands article, Cue Card put in an excellent time performance. Almost certainly ran to form – at his age unlikely to have improved. If both horses would’ve run to form – and if official ratings are a guide – then Coneygree could be expected to finish at least 4 lengths behind (Timeform ratings suggested much more). True, Coneygree “hadn’t run for 18 months” but he’s got a great record fresh. imo Allowing for Johnson not giving Coneygree a hard time in the final furlong the Bradstock horse can be rated as only slightly below form.
Yes, Coneygree is highly likely to make the small advancement to be right up to his very best next time. That said – on form – his “best” won’t be good enough if Cue Card runs to his best. However, it’s possible “coming on for the run” might mean Coneygree improves past his Gold Cup rating. imo If he does it is unlikely he’ll improve enough to beat a spot on Cue Card at Kempton, although suppose it’s also possible Cue Card’s form deteriorates.
Unfortunately horse racing is full of ifs, buts, likelies, unlikelies, possibles, probables and howevers.
Value Is EverythingAbsolutely, and please don’t take this as me knocking CC,it was a quite brilliant performance and it’s certainly not sour grapes as I did not even have a bet in the race.
One point I will make though is that Coney’s “best” was recorded in his novice season.Given the natural improvement of chasers in their second season and how lightly raced the horse has been (just 6 chase starts),I think it is possible for him to improve on the figure he reached in the Gold Cup when he is fully wound up whereas,as you say,Cue Card is unlikely to find any further improvement at his age.
While he does have a good record fresh,if you have a look at the horses he has beaten first time out then it just doesn’t compare to Saturday.Beating Dell’Arca a length is certainly nothing special,and he improved for the run by winning the Feltham doing handstands.Last year he beat a pair of average handicappers Seventh Sky and Southfield Theatre and unfortunately we did not see him again.
Yes,he likes soft ground but even so was entitled to get tired and be a bit ring rusty.As I say,it seems he retains his old enthusiasm for jumping a fence and that is the most important thing for me.
Maybe I am blinded by loyalty but I just think this animal is an absolute machine!Personally I would be aiming him at the Lexus before Cheltenham but what do I know?!
Like you say,it is all about opinions and lets just hope they can get Don Cossack back to form so we can see him,Coneygree,Cue card,Thistlecrack and Djackadam battle it out in March…now that really would be a race for the ages!
^ Can’t quite see Coneygree making enough improvement myself, but you make some very fair points MC.
Value Is EverythingFor what it’s worth, the Bradstocks are delighted with Coneygree’s run, but felt Johnson might have gone a bit quicker on the first circuit to draw the sting out of the others, since all Coneygree does is one paced, albeit a rather rapid one.
It is a pretty big ask to expect any horse to beat a race-fit, 178 Timeform rated chaser first time out, and the Bradstocks made it pretty clear in the press that their main concern was that they had not been able to work Coneygree on their grass gallops as they had been too firm. (Normally they would give a horse at least two fast pieces of work on the grass – with a good few days interval in between – before its first run of the season.)
Timeform rated Coneygree’s run 169, which is not too shabby after a year’s absence. Now he only has to improve a mere 12 lbs plus to collar Cue Card in the King George.
And by the by, Cue Card was magnificent: the old boy and his connections deserve all the plaudits.
Its amazing to read peoples expectations for a first time out run, They are not machines. I read a similar headline a few years ago “HORSES ARE NOT READY TO DO THEMSELVES JUSTICE FIRST RUN OF THE SEASON” Shocker. So it has always been in racing and will continue to be so. It goes with a similar headline news story, “2 YO WONDER HORSE FAILS TO SHINE ON RACE COURSE DEBUT” .
In very similar circumstances well within recollection of even the most absent minded individual, we observe another horse returning from injury the mighty Sprintre Sacre, he came back after a layoff at 4/6 and was beaten by Dodging Bullets, exactly the same platitudes were dished out to the voracious public. Next time out he was even pulled up. A summer under his belt and he was back to normal “RETURN OF THE WONDER HORSE” “MAGNIFICENT TRAINING PERFORMANCE TO PROTECT THE HORSE” .
Come on lads, we have been watching racing for years, the above scenario has been played out dozens of times if not more. We must have learned something over the years.
House hold name horses are NEVER going to be at their best first run of the season, they have targets well into the season. Two months ago they were stood in field eating sodding grass.
Some great comments on here as always…from people who’s opinions I have a lot of time for too…so going forward, I’m easily over the disappointment I felt Saturday and looking forward to Coneygree taking on Cue Card again at Kempton!
Cue Card came on a hell of a lot from Wetherby with the benefit of that run…is he going to improve that much again…no…is there a chance we could see 10lbs improvement from Coneygree? I’d say yes there’s every chance..
One thing he never got chance to do the other day was put CC’s jumping under any kind of pressure…one of his main assets…I feel he will be able to do that more at Kempton..
Don’t understand the time thing either? 5 of the 7 races were run quicker last year on slightly less testing ground…Cue Card was 14 seconds quicker than last race this year as opposed to 10 seconds quicker last year…this year was won by one easing down as opposed to one being driven out last year so nothing out of the ordinary was it?
SSK, an odd and perhaps churlish comment from the Bradstocks on the face of things. I cannot recall a better NH jockey from the front than Johnson.
A faster first circuit might have seen off some others a bit sooner, but Cue Card will cruise at any speed you like. It must also have been in Johnson’s mind after such a layoff, to give the horse a proper warmup and get him into a rhythm.
I can understand their disappointment at losing his unbeaten at fencing record, but blaming the jockey wouldn’t go down well with anyone. They should suck it up as the saying goes, although Mark, in character, seems defensive and tetchy in most interviews.
I’ve never backed Cue Card to win a race before. But he is one of my favourites despite never winning a penny on him in all his races. I’ve lost a bit by him winning though !
Quite a while ago i got a tip for him in the bumper race from a good friend who was doing some work on one of the owners family members farm a few weeks before Cheltenham, and they were very confident he would win. The guy was not into horse racing at all and just mentioned it to a few friends in conversation. Needless to say i shrugged it off and missed out while the others collected. :(
Strange how time passes and we are talking about him now in these type of races now.
Sorry to go off topic but it’s a good little story.
Yeah good story Botchy1. I backed Cue Card in the King George when he virtually stopped when well clear but backed Vautour last year when Cue Card came and collared him. A shame Vautour is no longer with us as the Gold Cup is shaping up well and he would of been a strong contender with his love for the course. In a way I hope Cue Card does not win the KG because I want to see Thistlecrack line up at Cheltenham and you don’t know how that 1 million bonus will affect the thinking.
Yes, Cue Card came on a lot for his first run but he was fit enough anyway for Wetherby, ginger says reportedly he blew for forty five minutes but I reckon it got lost in translation and was more like four to five minutes. If he was such a good ground horse he came on millions for the heavy going. Coneygree had a harder first race to start with anyway, it’s harder to run the distance on heavy so agree he can come on again however amount of fitness he had beforehand, he was off for such a long time they were never going to kill him and Johnson done the right thing once passed.
Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026
Yeah good story Botchy1. I backed Cue Card in the King George when he virtually stopped when well clear but backed Vautour last year when Cue Card came and collared him. A shame Vautour is no longer with us as the Gold Cup is shaping up well and he would of been a strong contender with his love for the course. In a way I hope Cue Card does not win the KG because I want to see Thistlecrack line up at Cheltenham and you don’t know how that 1 million bonus will affect the thinking.
Surprised this is still doing the rounds. Do you really believe that if Cue Card wins the King George and let’s say Thistlecrack is unbeaten in four that they will suddenly re-route Thistlecrack? It just isn’t going to happen. The two sets of owners will both want to win a Gold Cup. Who knows this might be Thistlecrack’s only chance to win a Gold Cup.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.