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The home of intelligent horse racing discussion

The Vintner

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Viewing 17 posts - 18 through 34 (of 109 total)
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  • in reply to: Changing Legs #368657
    The Vintner
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    Most horses will naturally change leads around turns, to the inside lead. It’s just easier. Then when they tire in the straight the will switch again. About the only way a jockey can ask for a lead change is by shifting his weight and throwing the horse off balance and into the other lead. If a horse isn’t changing leads, esp on a turn, then it’s more than likely carrying an underlying injury, though young horses can certainly be unbalanced.
    Arazi’s impressive win in the BC Juvenile back in ’91 was all the more impressive considering he didn’t switch leads in the home stretch, see for yourself…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNZn919v6BU

    in reply to: Ascot Day One Race Order #360727
    The Vintner
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    Isn’t part of the reason to run the best races on the best ground?
    If it was raining, it would be right cut up come 5:30, especially with all those 20 horse fields.
    The Americans don’t have to worry about that as they send out tractors to drag the dirt after every race and therefore can keep the best till last, and they also do cancel any early turf races in the event of rain to keep the grass good for any marquee grass races later on in the card.

    in reply to: Castlemorris King #358984
    The Vintner
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    What does it cost to start in the Derby?

    in reply to: Question regarding winners of the Derby! #358570
    The Vintner
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    No, although a hurdler has won the Arc De Triomphe.

    Two in fact. Motrico and La Paillon. The latter was an unlucky second in the Champion Hurdle at Cheltenham before being an impressive winner of the Grand Course de Haies (French version of the Champion Hurdle). He followed that up in Oct with a win in the Arc, though in fairness that year, 1947, is generally considered the weakest Arc field ever assembled.

    More recently, Steppenwolfer, who finished 3rd in the Kentucky Derby in 2006 behind Barbaro, got a couple of spins over American style NSA fences a couple of years ago, without much success.

    in reply to: Tote/bookmakers/exchanges #352832
    The Vintner
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    If paying taxes was optional, which would you chose
    a) pay taxes
    b) not pay taxes

    in reply to: French Horse Racing – prize money #352829
    The Vintner
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    So the prize money is better, it’s cheaper to get in & yet none of the country give two hoots?

    Yeah, that’s much better. :roll:

    You seem to be suggesting there is a correlation?
    So because they have cheaper admission, and better prize money, that that is the reason less people are interested in racing???? That’s interesting take on things.
    By your logic then one should increase the price of a ticket to Wed meeting at Plumpton to 85 quid a head, and have the horses racing for bragging rights, and thousands will flock.

    It’s quite bizarre how people will spin things sometimes.

    in reply to: French Horse Racing – prize money #352820
    The Vintner
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    If the cheap admission at Longchamp is such a powerful crowd attraction, how come there’s never anybody there except on two or three days each year?

    Because by and large the French are not huge fans of racing.
    The Brits and Irish are.

    Even with the fact the French don’t have the same interest in racing, and bet half as much, they still manage to be able to provide healthy prize money because of their system. 8% of every euro bet on a race in France goes back to racing. The two are directly tied.

    in reply to: French Horse Racing – prize money #352765
    The Vintner
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    For comparison, here are average prizemoney and number of races for major racing nations in 2008, except Aus which is 2006.

    USA[

    ———-, Avg Prize ———-, No. of races
    Flat ———-, €13,990 ———-, 49951
    Jumping ———-, €22,170 ———-, 168
    Trotting ———-, €5,890 ———-, 54264
    GENERAL AVERAGE/Total races ———-, €9,790 ———-, 104383

    Japan

    ———-, Avg Prize ———-, No. of races
    Flat ———-, €36,610 ———-, 17612
    Jumping ———-, €197,860 ———-, 132
    Trotting ———-, €0 ———-, 0
    GENERAL AVERAGE/Total races ———-, €37,810 ———-, 17744

    Ireland

    ———-, Avg Prize ———-, No. of races
    Flat ———-, €31,100 ———-, 1020
    Jumping ———-, €20,000 ———-, 1434
    Trotting ———-, €0 ———-, 0
    GENERAL AVERAGE/Total races ———-, €24,610 ———-, 2454

    Hong Kong

    ———-, Avg Prize ———-, No. of races
    Flat ———-, €96,180 ———-, 735
    Jumping ———-, €0 ———-, 0
    Trotting ———-, €0 ———-, 0
    GENERAL AVERAGE/Total races ———-, €96,180 ———-, 735

    Australia (2006)

    ———-, Avg Prize ———-, No. of races
    Flat ———-, €11,020 ———-, 19821
    Jumping ———-, €16,830 ———-, 142
    Trotting ———-, €3,440 ———-, 15666
    GENERAL AVERAGE/Total races ———-, €7,710 ———-, 35629

    France

    ———-, Avg Prize ———-, No. of races
    Flat ———-, €22,908 ———-, 4660
    Jumping ———-, €28,250 ———-, 2194
    Trotting ———-, €19,600 ———-, 10984
    GENERAL AVERAGE/Total races ———-, €21,510 ———-, 17838

    GB

    ———-, Avg Prize ———-, No. of races
    Flat ———-, € 11,760 ———-, 6128
    Jumping ———-, €11,700 ———-, 3366
    Trotting ———-, €0 ———-, 0
    GENERAL AVERAGE/Total races ———-, €11,740 ———-, 9494

    UAE[

    ———-, Avg Prize ———-, No. of races
    Flat ———-, €96,542 ———-, 308
    Jumping ———-, €0 ———-, 0
    Trotting ———-, €0 ———-, 0
    GENERAL AVERAGE ———-, €96,542 ———-, 308

    NZ

    ———-, Avg Prize ———-, No. of races
    Flat ———-, €7,570 ———-, 2970
    Jumping ———-, €5,730 ———-, 129
    Trotting ———-, €5,120 ———-, 2768
    GENERAL AVERAGE ———-, €6,370 ———-, 5867

    in reply to: French Horse Racing – prize money #352764
    The Vintner
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    Not only is the prize money twice that of GB racing (€21.8k as opposed to €11.7k per race),but in 2008 the French also gave out €53.8m in breeders premiums, €33.6m in owners premiums and €10m in travelling allowances (whatever the hell that is?… I guess the help you pay for the petrol it takes to get to the racecourse?). So on top of the €383million in prizemoney they gave out that year, the total they gave back to racing came to €485m.
    In the same year GB returned €113m, of which €111 was in prizemoney and €1.7m in breeders premiums.
    In that year, the French bet a total of approx €9.5billion on a total of 17,838 races (the majority, over 60%, of all races in France are Trotting races). That works out to an average of about €530k per race.
    The Brits bet a little over €11billion on almost half as many races, 9628 between jumps and flat. That’s an average of €1.14m bet per race.

    So the French bet less than half as much, yet their races are worth twice as much (plus tens of millions in owners and breeders premiums thrown in for good measure).

    in reply to: Grand national aftermath #349786
    The Vintner
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    Why don’t we have 1m4f hurdle races anymore?
    How come they stopped having jump races on the AW?
    I wonder why they stopped having those? Can’t be because of injuries, as I mean jockeys and horses get injured every day of the week. It is interesting however that they were able to do away with those without stopping the sport completely. I wonder how they were able to pull that off?

    in reply to: Grand national aftermath #349732
    The Vintner
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    Thanks for doing the ground work on that Bosarnic. I had suspected that the majority of the fallers in the National were in the early part of the race and was about to embark on some analysis to see if this was indeed true.
    I think the reasons for this are obvious…. the cavalry charge. Too many horses going way too damn fast. It’s a 4m4f race for godsakes. You don’t see the field go out that fast in a 3m chase, why would you do it in race a mile and half longer? I’m sure the answer is jockeying for position, brought on by the size of the field. You can’t legislate pace. But you can cut the size of the field.

    Really when you think about it, for a race with such a humongous purse, it attracts a very mediocre field. I know this will make most of you run for the vapors, but it wouldn’t bother me it the race was no longer a handicap, or a modified handicap of a select 20 or 25 runners. Go for quality over quantity. I know that would effectively change the very nature of the race.

    in reply to: British Bred ? #329749
    The Vintner
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    Some famous examples of this.
    Makybe Diva (GB) – her US bred dam was covered in Ireland and then sold in foal by her Saudi owner to a Croatian living in Australia. She was foaled in England, then sent to Aus as a foal.
    Neartic (CAN) – his sire was an Italian horse standing at stud in England, dam was exported to Canada in foal where Neartic was born.
    Princequillo (IRE) – his sire Prince Rose was bred in England but is known as the best "Belgian" race horse of all times, as that is where he was owned, trained and raced. Went to stud in France, where he covered Princequillo’s dam, the British bred Cosquilla. She was smuggled out of German occupied France and sent to Ireland where Princequillo was foaled. He was then exported to the US as a foal, where he ended up being trained by the famous Argentinian, Horatio Luro ("El Gran Señor", for whom the Coolmore horse would be named) and owned by a Russian prince.

    in reply to: Casual Conquest #329196
    The Vintner
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    Steppenwolfer, 3rd in the 2006 Kentucky Derby, got a couple of spins over the NSA fences last year. Didn’t do so well.

    in reply to: Denman #328949
    The Vintner
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    Defintiely a Liver Chestnut

    In horses, "liver chestnut" is a term used to describe a chocolate-colored chestnut horse. A liver chestnut is the same genetically as a regular chestnut, but the shade is a dark brown rather than the reddish or rust color more typical of chestnut

    in reply to: Rules on Changing Name #328444
    The Vintner
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    The Chinese are very superstitious about names, which is why they majority of horses in Hong Kong have their names changed to something "Luckier". Every horse there is of course an import.

    in reply to: Zenyatta – that ride #326751
    The Vintner
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    People must have short memories. She was almost as far back last year. Go and look at last year’s race.

    2009 Classic
    2f — 15 1/4
    4f — 13
    6f — 9
    8f — 6 3/4
    Str– 1 1/4
    fin– Won

    2010 Classic
    2f — 16 1/4
    4f — 15
    6f — 14 3/4
    8f — 6
    Str– 2
    fin– hd

    This is the distance she was behind Blame for the trip this year

    2f — 9 1/4
    4f — 4 1/2
    6f — 5
    8f — 5 3/4
    Str– 2
    fin– hd

    in reply to: THE WORST RIDE EVER! #326750
    The Vintner
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    Zenyatta, lengths off the leader

    2009 Classic
    2f — 15 1/4
    4f — 13
    6f — 9
    8f — 6 3/4
    Str– 1 1/4
    fin– Won

    2010 Classic
    2f — 16 1/4
    4f — 15
    6f — 14 3/4
    8f — 6
    Str– 2
    fin– hd

    So I guess he rode the worst race ever last year too?

    They also went out faster this year. The cheap speed burned itself out and came back to her. She got beat by a good horse. Where’s the shame in that?

Viewing 17 posts - 18 through 34 (of 109 total)