Forum Replies Created
- Posts
A trainer voices concern about losing a major meeting completely and you find that astonishing?
I for one don’t what to see the Game Spirit lost nor the Betfair Hurdle. I couldn’t care less if they arranged them to run at Yarmouth as long as they don’t lose them but Newbury are working their butts off to try and stage it. stuff the other courses if Newbury can do it they deserve first crack should it have to be moved IF POSSIBLE
Nickys trained over 30 winners at the Festival and there’s not many more flexible than him.
Newbury chose this time of the year for the race do they?
You obviously know very little about annual fixture allocation. Note the if possible above.
No, they are races, NOT Newbury’s races. If another venue running at midweek can pick up these races, I’d rather that happened to be honest. It would still be the Game Spirit or the Denman if it were run at Kelso or Sandown. After all, we’ve moved races like the Welsh National, the Tingle Creek and the King George VI Chase in the past to other venues, so why couldn’t we move these?
Again, we saw this from Henderson last year – the big trainers want races run to suit their horses at times that suit them – where’s the flexibility in that? We’ve seen both Henderson and Nicholls cajole the BHA into putting on races specifically to suit certain horses (Denman) and that’s outrageous.
Take LONG RUN – if the Denman is lost, why doesn’t Henderson send him for the Racing Post Chase if he wants a run? – he might have to give some weight away to handicappers but he’s a Gold Cup winner. Dessie ran in handicaps, it won’t harm LONG RUN.
This fixture has been part of Newbury’s calendar for at least 40 years so presumably they "want" this meeting. It’s been abandoned a fair few times but that’s a risk of racing in winter in this country – we’ve got used to some milder weather but in the 1980s for example, we had some bad winters with lots of abandonments – the world didn’t end then and it won’t end now.
I hope Newbury survives – it will be a testament to the fleeces first used to save this meeting six years ago during a similar cold spell. The limitations of said covers have been well exposed since but they’ve undoubtedly saved a number of fixtures.
I find Henderson’s attitude astonishing. This is Winter – we have it at this time most years. Up to last week, we had hardly lost a meeting. Now, we have a couple of weeks of cold weather and he is pressing the panic button and so are one or two others.
There is enormous redundancy already in the NH season without staging extra meetings. Cheltenham is still a few weeks away. Henderson’s problem seems to be that he wants the NH season to operate to suit him and that includes the weather.
A better trainer would be flexible and able to deal with the vagaries of a British winter without throwing his toys out of the pram.
I imagine IF Newbury is lost on Saturday, there’ll be a clamour to run it next Wednesday or next Friday. I don’t personally agree with that – Newbury choose to race this time of year, they take a calculated risk with the weather even with their expensive frost sheets and fleeces or whatever.
IF the meeting is lost, let other courses benefit for a change.
Morning all
An interesting and thought-provoking thread. I agree with much of what’s been said and while I’ll try to choose my words carefully, if I offend anyone, I apologise in advance.
I live in East Ham, a cosmopolitan part of the world where you will hear many languages spoken on the High Street including English. The betting shops and the FOBTs do well here because the one thing all these cultures seem to share is a love of gambling. Be they Tamils from Sri Lanka, Romanians or Chinese, they all (with the notable exception of the Muslims) enjoy a gamble.
Not a flutter, they come from countries and regions where horse racing as we know it is not part of the culture but they can understand a slot machine, roulette or poker because these transcend national cultural divides.
Successful bookmakers paying an ever-larger amount of tax to the Government means that under the veneer of liberalisation, the FOBTs advance unchecked. I have no sense of the damage they are causing to individuals and families but at a time of growing unemployment, the groups of men who congregate in and around these betting shops from dawn to dusk and beyond are a growing and pitiful sight.
I have the same view of the Lottery as I do the FOBTs – it is a stealth tax on the poor. The sheer improbability of scooping the pool and the awful dividends on offer make it not worth playing on any level yet the truth is for many a lottery win is their only realistic prospect of a life-changing event.
I’m reminded of my visits to Vegas – the Hotel casinos are sparkling and friendly, the restrooms immaculate. Mrs Stodge tells me she never feels as safe as she does in the casino at our hotel. And yet I can’t help but feel but beneath the facade there is a lot that the tourists don’t see and I suspect there are big issues with gambling addiction that Vegas doesn’t want ther world to see or hear. You only have to go a little way off the Strip to see things aren’t as glamourous as the brochures suggest.
Morning all
To be fair, a lot of NH racing is pretty poor stuff as well. Fields of novice hurdlers dominated either by a single long odds-on favourite from a big stable (Nicholls, Henderson) or two from large stables and it’s 20/1 bar the two.
Class 4 and Class 5 handicap hurdles and chases are basically sellers which are far from edifying as you watch some old plodder slog round hock deep mud at Chepstow or Towcester.
Then of course you have the Bumpers which are appalling and the Hunter chasers which are little better.
For every Cheltenham, Sandown or Newbury fixture, there are a large number of moderate to poor jump meetings and, to be honest, a 20% cull of some of these fixtures wouldn’t be a loss.
I’m not going to defend winter Flat racing in terms of quality – I can’t. Most of it is uncompetitive drivel especially at Southwell and Kempton. That said, it serves a purpose in spells of weather like this (apparently).
If I pop in to any of the dozen or so betting shops in and around my High Street on a weekday, I won’t see crowds of eager punters poring over the latest offerings from Wolverhampton – the biggest crowds are around the FOBTs.
Indeed, the figures tell you all you need to know. We are in the midst of some tough economic times and it has impacted most on people who live off their savings – those who might have been the midweek racegoers.
The weekend and bank holiday crowds are boosted by those on tracker mortgages – the families whose mortgage payments have fallen and can still afford the odd treat.
Looking at Leafy as an example, in 2011, the jumps meeting was held on Monday January 3rd, which was a Bank Holiday, and got 1,530 paying customers. This year, the same meeting was on Thursday January 5th and got 634. Even the AW meetings are suffering – Saturday January 15th 2011 got 1,053 – the meeting on Saturday January 14th this year got 789.
The crowds are swelled by Annual Members, some of whom seem to attend every meeting but I wonder how much they spend on food and drink.
To counter that, the equivalent meetings at Plumpton and Newbury did slightly better this year than 2011 while Victor Chandler Day was slightly lower. I suspect it will be a tough year for courses with the European Championships and the Olympics as big counter-attractions in the summer.
It would be interesting to see if any course is brave enough to give it a go – I think there would be many racegoers who would be prepared to pay, say a fiver more, to go in a booze free enclosure.
I’ve no problem with people having a drink with a meal in a restaurant or brasserie-type place – perfectly fine. I’m afraid I share the view that dressing well doesn’t always go with behaving well especially where alcohol is concerned.
Some of the worst behaviour I have seen at racecourses has been at summer evening meetings among corporate groups in private boxes.
Most people are mostly fine most of the time and I’m hardpushed to justify an alcohol ban. I think the issue is that racecourses and racecourse staff find it easier to deal with individual infractions of a dress code – the individual concerned will be embarrassed and maybe annoyed but will be reasonable about any sanction.
I have rarely seen any racecourse staff, either individually or in groups, attempt to deal with clearly inebriated groups of young men or women. I suspect they’ve been told not to provoke a potential public order problem (bad publicity for the course) but when it does get out of hand (Newmarket, Ascot), the response from the tracks has been tepid in terms of delaing with the problem and equally tepid in recognising that their actions are part of the problem.
I have also never seen racecourse staff refuse to serve drink – maybe they could try putting orange stickers on the drunks
.Evening all
Little doubt in my mind that yesterday was a PR disaster for Ascot. Sticking orange stickers on people whose dress doesn’t quite match the required standard is completely unacceptable in this day and age.
I find the idea of a "dress code" for attending racing an increasingly anachronistic throwback to social and cultural mores of times past and I speak as someone of fairly advanced years.
The argument that Ascot will always fill its top enclosure is used as justification for its dress guidelines but this is hugely spurious. Ascot is in one of the wealthiest regions of the country and attracts its clientele which is conservative in outlook. This is why places like Goodwood and Thirsk do dress codes – because they appeal to the inate conservatism of their local audience.
The bottom-line argument is of course that Ascot are entitled to ask their customers to dress in a particular manner if they wish and I am equally entitled either to go to a different enclosure where the guidelines are acceptable to me or attend a racecourse whose dress standards are more amenable.
How far is it from the station, stodge? Hadn’t thought of using the train. Can’t believe that a track surrounded by houses could have such a country feel to it, but then Leicester is real proper horse country, is it not.
I’m not sure if it’s still the case but there was a direct bus from the station up to the course. The course is at Oadby, a couple of miles out of the city. I remember a no.30 bus going up to the course but there may be others. This is a regular service rather than one put on just for racegoers.
Plenty of cabs available certainly on a midweek afternoon and, as I say, the walk is two miles, fairly level and fairly straight. Well sign-posted too if memory serves.
Quickest trains from St Pancras are about an hour to Leicester. For a 2pm start, a midmorning train is fine.
Chapman was certainly in overdrive on ATR first thing this morning and it was dreadful PR for Betfair to be honest.
Just as an aside, I saw JACK THE GIANT win his first chase, a 2-mile at Sandown’s first meeting. Thought he was superb and backed him each-way for the Arkle immediately after.
As for Leicester, I’ve been there for both Flat and NH meetings. It’s not a bad journey on the train from London and then a bus or taxi to the track (though I have walked back to the station a couple of times).
Facilities-wise, it’s second division at best and could be so much better. In terms of racing, it is for me primarily an early-season Flat track but as others have said, the all-chase meetings are a delight. I went to the all-hunter chase meeting which was on a Tuesday at one time – now Friday I think.
It reminds me a lot of Folkestone – or does Folkestone remind me of Leicester ?
It was only a couple of years ago that ATR was often using the "red button" option if there were too many meetings to show at the same time yet this didn’t seem to be available on Monday.
I wonder if this is a budgettary issue and using the red button is an expensive option.
I also found the loss of Towcester in exchange for Limerick incomprehensible.
The only thing is, of course, to ask what would have happened if we only had the single Racing Channel ? In the old days, only four meetings were shown "live" so there’s some improvement with the two spaecialist channels.
I share all the views about how the bookies has changed in recent years. I marked the board as a student for Mecca Bookmakers in the early 80s as a summer job and they were very different places back then.
Nowadays, I’m a rare visitor – I enjoy evening racing at a couple of shops up in the City during the summer but my local shops are dominated by the crowd around the FOBTs and the groups of Tamil or Polish or Russian men who seem to spend much of their days there.
Thank you, Irish. I must admit when I spoke to one of the Owners at Sandown I thought it was strange they were going to Barbury rather than Cottenham or Higham where he had done so well last year but they were anxious to get him started.
The plan is, as you say, hunter chasing in the New Year. I suggested somewhere like Ludlow or Taunton as a starting point – ground never too bad at either venue. They were also considering Leicester which would be fine in such a dry winter.
START ROYAL fell at Fakenham when tried over regulation fences and I don’t think they want to go back there. I suspect Barbury was a sighter just to see if he really got a stiff three miles.
I don’t know the end-season plan – Folkestone seems the obvious venue as I don’t think Towcester would play to his strengths.
Did START ROYAL run at Barbury Castle over the weekend? I thought he was one of the best of the young horses last season and I know one of the Owners.
I know the horse was going to be entered.
As someone who thinks Harriet Harman had a point the other day, when I walk down East Ham High Street, the punters in the dozen or so betting shops aren’t betting on the Class 6 races at Kempton, Southwell or wherever.
They are playing the FOBTs and do so from dawn to dusk and beyond.
The pact running racing is between the bookmakers and the racecourses. In exchange for copious levels of sponsorship and support, the tracks agree to race as often as the bookies want.
IF there was no payment for staging twilight racing, would Kempton and Wolverhampton even bother? It’s well known that the bookies like to keep the shops "busy" with continuous racing but in my neck of the woods, it’s the FOBTs that keep the shops open.
There is of course the argument that only the bookmaking chains can afford to pay the leases for these shops and without them, they would sit empty and I can see the argument from the local Councils and property owners’ perspective but let’s not kid ourselves. Twilight or BERS racing as we should call it, is shop fodder, that’s all.
I would have a total limit of 1,000 fixtures and pay any course that wants to be mothballed for five years with a promise of more fixtures once times improve and the horse population recovers.
The Irish seem happy with two or three novice or beginner chases each week yet we put on a dozen and wonder why we don’t get the runners.
Looking at the Paris runners for Sunday, I think our Champions Day and Future Champions meetings have had a significant impact.
We have no UK raiders in the Cadran and we aren’t putting up much opposition to either GOLDIKOVA or DABIRISIM in their races. Even our challenge in the Abbaye seems lower-key than in some years where we have provided (with the Irish) nearly half the field.
There is moderate racing in almost every jurisdiction (Hong Kong is a noable exception). I’m sick at the present so was awake at 3am this morning and watched the first Aussie race at Echuca – vintage stuff, hardly, a 3-y-o maiden over five andf a half furlongs but twelve runners.
The first at another meeting was a 2200m maiden with just five runners.
It’s all very well Gosden and others berating the quasntity but we couldn’t live on quality alone.
.