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I had a thought on the way home
I wonder if someone could be persuaded to put up a serious purse – let’s say £50 million or the equivalent in US or Australian dollars.
FRANKEL swerves the Breeders Cup and instead goes to Flemington and takes on BLACK CAVIAR over a mile in a special match race on Melbourne Cup day – say an hour before the big race.
His trip, her back yard.
Well, it’s quality all the way this evening – Newbury has one Class 4 (keep breathing) and five Class Fives.
Lingfield has four Class Fives and two Class Sixes including, at 7.30, the obligatory bottom-of-the-barrel scarapingly bad seller. At least there aren’t two sellers on the card which has been known.
Doubtless, both courses will be packed out on this gloriously sunny evening which will make the whole exercise worthwhile. Imagine if it were cold and wet – would they be heading to East Surrey in their thousands? Methinks not.
The equivalent meeting last year, held in similarly glorious conditions, got just under 6,000. As contrast, this year’s Derby Trial meeting got 4,500.
Quality doesn’t matter – all that matters ia a fine sunny evening and plenty of alcohol.
On an anecdotal note, however, I was told by someone who worked at Sandown on Thursday evening that it was one of the quietest evenings ever.
Therefore the decision to transfer the card to Kempton AW is both sensible and to be applauded
You will not be surprised that I totally disagree with that sentiment.
Of all the dumb decisions that "Racing PLC" has come up with this has to be amongst the most asinine yet.
It isn’t the greatest card Ascot stages and the Sagaro is not the be all and end all and it would not be missed.
You’ll not be surprised to hear I agree wholeheartedly with that. How much the BHA had to do with the transfer I don’t know. I suspect Kempton were on the phone to Ascot within minutes of Ascot calling the meeting off offering their venue.
Let’s be honest – the commercial forces in racing (the bookmakers and the racecourses) want every meeting to be saved and moved. I doubt an Owner, Trainer, Jockey or anyone else involved will object – after all, no racing equals no prize money and the more races that are held, the more opportunity for riders to earn fees and for Owners and Trainers to make their cut.
Efforts to rationalise or reduce the fixture list founder on these rocks – it is in the interests of the powerful in racing (racecourses, bookmakers) for there to be as much racing as possible as often as possible.
Morning all
This Ascot meeting has been lost a number of times in the past and what often happened was that the Sagaro went to Newmarket during the Guineas meeting.
On the broadcasting, Ascot races transferred to other venues have always been shown on ATR though I don’t recall a whoile meeting being broadcast on both ATR and RUK – it will be interesting to see how this is managed.
As you know, I’m not a huge fan of transferring races or whole meetings especially in the winter when there is such massive redundancy built into the pattern. I accept the summer is slightly different though I would argue the Sagaro, Group 3 as it is, is hardly the be-all and end-all of the staying calendar.
Staging it at Kempton was an option – I’m also wondering whether Lingfield are already looking at moving their Derby Trial meeting on to the AW if the rain keeps up.
Oddly enough, I don’t think there will be any significant change. Great Leighs might try to return but will need to fight for any fixtures and might finish up scrapping with Kempton and Wolverhampton for winter twilight and evening meetings.
I can’t see any courses closing at the moment – they seem to be surviving the worst recession since the 1930s and short of a sustained break in racing, why should any close ?
Yes, I remember the Great Metyropolitan, a unique race. I believe Willie Carson said it was a really dangerous race to ride because it was always a big field and the undulations across the middle of the course were variable at best.
Some interesting points stodge but your assertion above that things have got worse in recent years totally contradicts what Paul Bittar said in his statement where he said things have never been better for the race in terms of injuries and fatalities.
He said "The decade since 2000 was the safest on record for the Grand National with a fatality rate of 1.5% compared to 3.3% at the start of the 90’s".
So in fact despite the unfortunate 2 fatalities this year and last and what some would have you believe. things of got better in recent years.
Of course it would be folly to have some knee jerk reaction to an odd year or two’s events.
Unfortunately, the world has moved on in the past twenty years. The hype that the National engenders puts it under the closest of microscopes and the phenomena of the Internet and Twitter spreads uninformed or ill-informed debate across the world.
Whether we like it or not, there is a huge media and public sensitivity around the issue. We cannot ignore the fact that for many people the death of a racehorse is the same as the death of a person and that there is also a perception that horses are being coerced into racing.
I’ve tried to defend racing and racing people on non-racing threads and have faced a barrage of sentimental and ill-informed criticism, some of it well-meant, other parts less so.
I wrote this on another forum – pretty much sums up where I am now on this:
It’s a huge pot for the sport – the winning owner got £547k and these are geldings so they have no residual stud value. For those not good enough to win the Gold Cup it’s the target for the season.
In recent years, the fences have been modified – they are smaller though still intimidating but the drops have been eased so they are more inviting for the better horse.
The other big change has been the drainage of the track. On Tuesday, after heavy rain, it was reportedly soft but by Saturday it had dried to Good. Since 2001, most of the Nationals have been run on faster ground than previously. Is this due to climate change or simply better drainage?
So, you have the three elements – better horses running for a larger pot, modified fences that are smaller and more inviting and a course which drains well leading to faster ground enabling horses to gallop faster. Put the three together and it’s possible to see what has happened and why.
What then to do? One answer might be to substantially reduce the prize money to discourage the better horses from running but I can’t see that being popular with the course, owners, trainers or jockeys.
A second option might be to strengthen the fences again -building them up again in size so horses respect them more. Again, that will hit a lot of opposition from groups like the RSPCA and Animal Aid and from those who want to see the better horses run.
A third option might be to do what the French do at Auteuil outside Paris and significantly overwater to produce artificially soft ground. There’s plenty of evidence long-term overwatering can cause great damage to turf and it might be that the course will have to do a lot of work between meetings but it’s only used for three times once a year and for one race in both October and November.
Another option might be to move the race back into the winter, to perhaps the end of February which might guarantee slower ground but would re-write the narrative of the jumps season.
The risk would be a late winter freeze and the race would be before Cheltenham (as well as clashing with the Eider). That could leave the option of a 4-mile handicap chase at the Festival carrying say £250k in winning prize money as an alternative staying prize – perhaps revamping the National Hunt Chase would be an option.
From my perspective, they seemed to go plenty fast enough over the first eight fences. The pre-race delays probably didn’t help either.
I’ll talk through my pocket for a moment as I backed SUNNYHILLBOY – I did think McClernon was going very wide but he did keep out of trouble. Nonetheless, he did put up a magnificent effort but to be beaten like that…
There will be plenty of coverage about the losses of SYNCHRONISED and ACCORDING TO PETE and the anti-racing press will have another field day tomorrow, I fear.
I’ve backed three in tomorrow’s race:
WESTENDROCKER at 16s earlier in the week before the rain. He’s been my longterm fancy since he looked so good in the Becher.
SUNNYHILLBOY went on my list after the Kim Muir. I’m on e/w at 25s.
RARE BOB is my outsider to run a big race at a big price.
There are a number of possibilities in what looks a hugely open race as usual. I would have ON HIS OWN, CAPPA BLEU and JUNIOR on the short list but the value has probably gone on them.
The problem is a lot of people complain there is too much racing but the people who run racing (the bookmakers and racecourses) have fought tooth and nail against any substantive reduction in the fixture list.
Even the 2012 trimming of the list by some 80 fixtures was a huge step back from the original 200 proposed reductions.
Paul Bittar is unable to say to the racecourses – "you race when we say not when you want" so the cavalcade continues. Only a significant decline in the numbers of horses racing will slow the advance of the fixture list and, remember, the bookies would have racing in the morning and at lunchtime if they could and indeed do with the virtual product.
Should we, for example, start the turf Flat season on Good Friday and have Doncaster move its Lincoln meeting to Good Friday and Easter Saturday?
Would, for example, having the Open Days on the day BEFORE Good Friday work if that were a blank day instead?
Morning all
I’m sorry but what do people expect? C4 is not a specialist racing broadcaster and neither is the BBC. If you want a specialist racing service, we are hugely fortunate (or not) in having two dedicated racing channels.
The problem is you have to pay for them – just as the cricket, golf, football and motor racing fan has to pay for their specialist coverage.
I don’t know how and in what way C4 will cover Ascot – my guess is, ads notwithstanding, they will cover Ascot much the same way with the appropriate decorum, pomp and circumstance. There won’t be ads during the Royal procession but there are ads on both RUK and ATR – that’s how channels survive without a licence fee and clearly the subs alone don’t cover it.
The audience for C4 won’t match the numbers the BBC had but they will still want the whole experience, not just the racing, important though it is to us.
I haven’t watched terrestrial racing coverage for some years – I don’t miss it that much.
I think at the moment there are too many commentators for the meetings and opportunities available.
The duplication of racing channels means additional opportunities but there are still too many front-of-camera people for what is really on offer.
IF C4 become the only terrestrial fame in town showing 1-2 meetings per Saturday, how many presenters/commentators will they really want or need?
This is, however, the crux of the problem. For many people, the central tenet of racing is, in their eyes, the abuse of horses with whips. The other is the sight of a horse losing its life in a race.
We saw last night from the reaction of people when a footballer was struck down that people don’t like to see pain and suffering whether to another person or to an animal. They believe that hitting a horse with a whip causes it pain – the logic is if a person got hit with a whip, it would cause them pain.
The corollary of that is that because they care they assume that we, who watch and enjoy the sport, don’t care.
I find the sight of a horse flailing around with a broken leg after a fall as distressing as anyone and I’m sure everyone on here does as well but the problem is it appears sometimes we don’t.
This failure of understanding leads to mutual suspicion and antipathy – some racing people retreat into bluster, turn their backs on a potential audience and claim only they understand.
I’m not a big fan of NH racing and I don’t have the affection for KAUTO STAR that others seem to enjoy.
That said, the horse clearly has the same sort of place in people’s hearts as did Desert Orchid and that’s fair enough.
Should he be retired? Clearly, Nicholls and connections are going to give the horse time and a thorough examination. It wouldn’t be the biggest surprise if they thought about bringing him back in the autumn with the King George as a target but on the basis he wouldn’t go to the Gold Cup.
We were here last year after Punchestown – there were plenty of calls for him to be retired then.
At his best, he can still compete at the highest level but perhaps only once or twice a season.
Whatever the case, I wish the horse well – he has made people happy to have known him and that’s as good as reward as any in my book.
Think Sandown’s water jump still exists, though its invisible from the stands and doesn’t serve any purpose imo
Yes, I wonder about that too. Lingfield haven’t had one for years – Plumpton got rid of theirs. Fontwell haven’t had one for years either.
I do agree there’s some merit when they are in front of the stands such as at Newbury and Aintree and other places.
I might be wrong but the rules at one point said there HAD to be a water jump on each circuit of a chase course but once that rule was dropped, courses were free to do as they saw fit.
I wonder if water jumps need more maintenance.
Yes, there were incredibly four NH meetings yesterday including an all-chase card at Leicester.
As for Sandown, those with long memories will recall the all-chase card which used to occur at the end of March – now, I may be on dodgy ground but the two and a half mile hunter’s chase we had yesterday is a relic from that card.
I’m not sure that card wasn’t the Royal Artillery meeting, parts of which have been shunted to its new mid-Feb date.
That meeting seems to be flourishing but it’s at a different time and stood up well to the competition of the rescheduled Newbury card. Yesterday’s card is a social occasion and allows the Esher set to meet up for the first time since the winter.
It certainly doesn’t deserve a place in a modern racing schedule and four meetings on a March Friday is ridiculous.
