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I was only giving Topspeed’s view though Ginger, in fact i’ve only given his view from the first post I made by using his standards initially to point out he differed from BB. I thought BB used Topspeed standards too? That was why I was confused as to how Topspeed has differing goings to BB.
I personally had Ascot as between Good & Good/Firm Friday and Good/Firm to Firm on Saturday. I find Topspeed’s standards sometimes are set at Good/Firm as at Newmarket and Ascot, so that when it is actually Good To Firm he gives Good.
Ascot dries very quickly these days Ginger, but yes I agree to go from Good to Firm in a day is a lot, but Topspeed hasn’t said that has he?
Novellist ran on Saturday not Friday. Topspeed has given Good for Friday and Good/Firm Saturday for Ascot.
The going there today was Good ground, certainly not near Good to firm, imo.
Your times seem to be suggest faster ground than it is BB, on Friday even Topspeed said it was only Good at Ascot.
Today’s ground is significantly faster than yesterdays, a rough calculation would be 0.22 per furlong faster.
The RP standards must be set at Good to Firm here by the looks of it Ginger and not Good. Not unusual for them, its the same at Newmarket. The first race today is a very quick time.
Fair point Ginger, but even SS’s race would point to only a bit faster than Good. I’m sure it will get quicker as it dries quick there but aren’t course records that stand now only since they rebuilt the course?
Even just using the RP standards the ground times out at Good. I’m not seeing how you got the ground fast.
Zibellina’s race for example was run just a bit faster than RP standard. I would expect a horse of that level of abilty to be running faster than standard on Good ground as it did.
The Racing Post has standard times [pars] for all courses. The times are par for a 100 Racing Post Rating horse carrying 9 stone for Flat racing.
Agree that race times are misleading. Cockney Rebel and Entrepreneur ran faster 2000 Guineas than Brigadier Gerard, Dancing Brave and Nijinsky. Laughable!
Bare times are misleading, conditions corrected ones aren’t. Bare times and speed figures are two totally different animals.
Unless you work out an allowance for wind/ground effects, I can’t really see why anyone would compare bare times, what is the point of comparing bare times, they will tell you a big fat zero? As they have with the title of this thread.
They went slower to halfway in the Melling than the novice race on Thursday. I doubt the Melling was much of a stamina test, so I would not draw conclusions about him staying 3 miles.
Geraghty said that yesterday was far enough, if they had gone a true pace early it would have made that opinion even stronger I would have thought.
Andy
The problem you have is that you think every great horse has to win over 12f.
How many of those horses you list, I hadn’t heard of any of them by the way
, would win over 6f or 2 miles? What is the obsession with 12f?Thinking about it I think that Secretariat is probably the greatest of them all.
I think if you insist on a horse having to win at 12f then you should also take it to its extreme and say that they should win at 5f as well to be the ultimate great.
We have a similar issue now with Sprinter Sacre, lets say he puts a run in that puts him on a Timeform rating of 213, but its at 2.5 miles. Would that mean Arkle was better because he won over further?
I don’t think you understand Slow hand.Nobody says Frankel was not the best horse ever to race in GB.Which of course he was.They simply state he was not the best 1&1/2 mile horse ever to race in GB.Also not the best sprinter ever to race in GB.Are you getting the picture ?
ooooh I don’t know if I am getting the picture Andy, I’m obviously not as smart as you so could you explain it a bit more, really slowly
thanks in advance
He wouldn’t have beaten Kauto Star over 3 miles either
Mill Reef wasn’t the best at a mile, it doesn’t detract from his greatness
Red Rum was obviously not one of the greats ratings wise but great in his domination of the National. Many people forget he was also runner up twice.
We may at some point, may, see a horse that might get near Arkle, possibly Sprinter Sacre. I doubt though any horse will ever equal Red Rums 5 Nationals, winning 3 and finishing 2nd twice.
Its near on impossible to get a dual National winner nevermind 3 times and double runner up.
, would win over 6f or 2 miles? What is the obsession with 12f?