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Nice post Kris. I say the same for Black Caviar but I’ve only been watching Oz racing for 30 years. I’ve never seen a horse here (Oz) cover the ground like she does. It appears to be effortlessly but times would tell you that that’s impossible, she must be exerting some…
I’m really looking forward to seeing both her & Frankel at Ascot this year (on the TV only unfortunately). It’s always a great week but could be something really special this year.
I, too, hope that Frankel comes back at least as good as he left us. It’s a bigger ask now that he’s 4, he won’t get the weight allowance he had as a 3yo. I’m sure that he wouldn’t be running if he wasn’t going well.
Mind you I don’t think that Black caviar is going as well as she was this time last year but she’s still the best sprinter I’ve seen even at her current level.
Looking forward to the race. A great weekend over the Atlantic for 3yo racing…
A question if I may….
What is the infactuation with 3yo racing in the US & UK for that matter. I don’t understand but would like an insight… please?
I’ve said this before & I’ll say it again. A decent form line can be taken through Ortensia. She was beaten 2.5L in the 2010 HK Sprint by JJTJP & Rocket Man. She has also been beaten by Black Caviar on numerous occaisions by 5+L. She has nothing to prove.
Those tha have read my posts before know that I’m an Aussie, but I hope that I don’t come accross as a boorish one or one eyed. Agreed that Frankel & Black Caviar are the 2 best in the world. I doubt they will meet in a race. 1600m in UK would be like 2000m here, Moody wouldn’t risk it.
I agree with the poster that your Sir H must think tht Frankel could b e the best ever as he wants to extend him to 2000m, which I think is great, rather than retire him which appears to be the norm with your champion 3yos. It’s a big risk, look what happened with Workforce. He was supposed to be a world champion as a 3yo, look what happens when you have to carry weight against some good horses. Of course I don’t believe that he is in the same class as Frankel, but who knows what will happen this season. By the way, can somebody please explain the infactuation with 3yo races, they’re all restricted!!
I can’t see how anyone can lay claim to another being a better sprinter than BC. Ortensia has franked the sprinting international form up over the past 2 years and she can’t get within cooee of BC.
As for the Breeders’ Cup meeting. Hard to line up who is the best when the best from the US race on dirt but, to me, the BCTurf is a poor man’s Arc, at best. I rate the Japan Cup a better race, the Sheema Classic a better race, the King George a better race, the HK Vase is every bit as good. I rate it above our BMW which is a tragic 2400m WFA race on a world scale but we don’t claim it as a world championship race!
Anyway, looking forward to your flat season & if you punt on the races in Oz, have an EW bet on Pierro in the Golden Slipper (I know, I don’t understand the infactuation with 2yo races either!)
AOB will have So You Think in the best for of his life for this and will want to win everything he can before the big boys start kicking him into touch.
Not sure what that is to mean. How many "big boys" are there? Frankel, check… Anyone else????
This race is worth $10million, why aren’t the "big boys" here? What is worth as much for them at home??
Breeding, it’s destroying racing as a contest.
Marbine,did you pick So You Think before a jockey was announced or after a jockey was announced?Do jockeys influence your decision?
To some degree they do.
It looks a weaker race than normal…
I think that the winner will be either…
Capponi, Eishin Flash, Silver Pond, So You Think or Zazou.
They will be the ones that I play in my multis anyway along with MOHs..
Push to shove – Eishin Flash from Zazou & So You Think.
The Sheema Classic looks extremely thin to me also. SNA appears to be the class horse but will he be ready with a long season ahead? Will CDA run the trip? Treasure Beach is also classy. Cavalryman looks to be back to somewhere near his best. Great run last start on a leader dominated track. Beaten Up looks promising. Cavalryman from SNA & Beaten Up for me. Won’t leave TB out of multis.
The Duty Free on the other hand looks to be a clinker of a race. Many different form lines here.
It’s the 3 from Asia for me – Dark Shadow, Ambitious Dragon & Xtension.
Golden Sheheen – Sepoy, Lucky Nine, Rocket Man.
Al Quoz – Ortensia, Joy & Fun, Prohibit.
Looks to be a great day’s (night!) racing.
I have to admit that I was wrong.
"They dawdled." = the most clueless comment…
They ran 55.44
Agree with AIC re Atlantic Jewel. She looked a champion 3yo filly here last Spring. Will that form hold? Will she come up? If she were European we would be having reservations about the hype. I’d prefer to wait & see.
You omit to mention that the first 200 metres [that’s metres not furlongs – or have you momentarily forgotten which country you are supposed to be in..?] was run in a rather modest 13.54 – almost 14 seconds, the second 200 in a better 10.21. It’s not really surprising that she managed a 9.98 for the 3rd period, fading to an 11.40 in the last 200.
I don’t think I’ve read a more clueless comment on any forum. Yes, a modest 13.54 1st 200m due to the fact that they are timed from a standing start, unlike Japan, NZ & other places I gather.
It’s not suprising that she managed 9.98??? Name any horse anywhere that has…
The margain looked more like 1.5 to 2L but semantics. Great race, she was made to earn it, doubt there was anything left but still too good. Her 200m split from the 600m to the 400m was 9.98sec, dear me…
Himself, i’m sure that Timeform had Lonhr as their World Champion Miler of 2004 so to say he wasn’t up with any of your horses in the past 40 years maybe a little exageration. But then again, these are the same people whom have Frankel 8lbs ahead of Black Caviar so I excuse you if you think that they have no idea!
I’ll bite, quite happily…
"Form against what? You guys can’t even keep the Melbourne Cup at home and all we send over is listed horses and handicappers."
No, we can’t but it has nothing to do with whom you refer to as "we". An English trained horse hasn’t won the Melbourne Cup or is France a Tasmanian like state? Dermot has won it twice, the French twice & Japanese once. So, please, keep sending over your listed horses.
"While you lot are telling all it’s the greatest race in the world the real champions are heading for the Arc and the Breeders."
The Arc, yes, but only if they have testicles or are female. The Breeders’ Cup? Are you for real? The BCCT is a joke of a WFA G1 race. The recent list of winners is not top class, certainly no better than the Melbourne Cup. Our racing industry is going along just fine, the most professionally run in the world. Take a look in your own back yard.
"Once your lot race beyond 6f you become a 3rd world racing country and horse like Atlantic Jewel would think they had gone into orbit if they ran in our 2000 or 1000 Guineas."
Yes, true. It’s what we breed for. I don’t agree with it but there is so much money up for grabs as 2yo’s everybody wants a quick pay day. What you say about Atlantic Jewel is just your opinion, nothing more..
"Even if Frankel dropped back to 6 furlongs he kick Black Caviar into touch. This is no ordinary great this horse is up there with Sea Bird II and Secretariat while Black Caviar is just another Zenyatta who we all loved but knew her limitations as should you guys from down under "
Highly unlikely but it all opinion based. Zenyatta, please.. She beat up on females for most of her career, Black Caviar has taken on the 3rd highest sprinter in the world 4 times & beaten him senseless each time. The 2nd highest rated sprinter now appears to be off his game. What about this, what if you are wrong, what if she is in fact up with Sea Bird II. It’s entirely possible. If Choisir, Takeover Target, Scenic Blast & Miss Andretti can win G1s in the UK this horse will rock your world…
Let’s hope that Frankel progresses to 4, a big risk stud wise.. My advise is that we all enjoy the fact that we get to watch 2 champions strutt their stuff. Horses like this don’t come around every year.
jollyp, I don’t think that Overdose is a fair comparison to Kincsem just because they were both Hungarian! Kincsem won races in the UK & other countries, not just Hungary. She must have been some sort of wonder horse. I would question the strength of the South/Central American Form of Camarero way before I questioned anything Kincsem did.
Jonibake, of course you are right re the quality of horse that Black Caviar faced in the Orr. There were no sprinters of top class. Southern Speed is gravely underrated and maybe now pigeon holed as a stayer after her Caulfield Cup win but she is a top class 1600m – 2400m horse, not in the Frankel class, but, who is? She’d be competitive in Group races in the UK. What the race did show was the fact that Black Caviar can relax so easily in a race, I was sure that she was going to pull & reef when the brakes were on but she just went to sleep. That race was nothing more than a track gallop.
Yes, a race between Frankel & Black Caviar would be one to savour. I’d be worried about both being defeated as both are extreme top shelf. It will be interesting to see how Frankel progresses as a 4yo, many in your part of the world don’t, let’s hope he does.
Hope they don’t go too crazy with over racing. She has a big year ahead… Dubai, UK & Japan & HK hopefully..
Yes, jollyp, it was her easiest win but the only race that she didn’t run time in. It was a trial, nothing more. The best horse I’ve seen.
Good ol’ jollyp, you wear your heart on your sleeve. There will always be those that get their back up mate, especially when you mention a horse beating "the F word" on this forum. My advise, just enjoy her mate. She will win no matter what the race, where the race or how long the race. It’s a pity the experts at many rating providers can’t see it yet, but, when it’s all said & done the story will be different. 2012 will be a year to remember.
I think the’d be 4 million locals would argue with you about the Cox Plate being the best race. The Melbourne cup is not only Melbourne’s top race it’s the Entire countries unless of course you live in Perth where they have other ideas.
HGM, if you honestly believe that, then, no offense, but you are clueless re racing in Australia. Our WFA racing is the best racing in our country, not our Hcp racing. Whilst the MC is time honoured and prestigeous (down here anyway), it is a hcp. Anyone here, who knows anything about class racing, knows that the WS Cox Plate (2040m)is the best quality race (9 times out of ten) each year. Our WFA ranks at that distance are at their lowest for many years, esp with SYT now gone. Sure, a huge % of our WFA "stars" do race in the MC (many get weighted out of it) but that is fue to the fact that it is worth $6M. If it was worth $2M I assure you that it wouldn’t happen.
