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EC Posted on 3:54 pm on Sep. 23, 2006 <br>the funniest bit is where it says..view Tommo’s friends
there are 5 of them
<br>I would like to point out that Tommos fan club actually has 4 friends, the fifth one was me (i approved a friend request before realising that it was in fact total garbage).
I also got a friend request from ron atkinson, saying if he gets enough friends then he may get back on itv. I phoned nelson mandela for advice on wheher to give big ron my support but he advised against it. Sorry ron!
I would also like to point out that one of tommos fan clubs friends is actually "tom" the myspace administrator, who is everybodys friend, so really he only has 3.
Pacemakers are a very important part of racing and should never be banned, racing is better for having pacemakers, you can say that there are good horses who havent needed pacemakers but there are plenty who are better for having them.
If george hadnt had a pacemaker setting thepace (which wasnt even ivan denisovich anyway) he might not have won in such fine style. in which case the racing public would not have seen such a great performance.
It is a fact of racing that most of its good horses are highly strung. And it is a common trait of highly strung horses that they will pull the bit all the way if they see too much daylight early on, so rather than racing from the front they settle them in behind. However if the horse wants a good sound gallop, you can either leave it to chance or put in a pace setter to ensure a good sound gallop.
Sometimes a pacesetter can spoil a race, like in the case of cherry mix in the king george, i firmly beleive that if hearts cry had beem allowed to set the fast pace which he likes then hurricane run could have been the type of horse to break the track record.
However godolphin wanted a slow gallop for electrocutionist (and probably didnt want doyens track record to be beaten) so cherry mix fought for the early lead with hearts cry and once he won the battle electrocutionist moved forward. As a result we missed out on a great king george and got a bunched finish instead.
Dettoris opinions clearly differ with how the result suits him, i think he should dry up and employ the term "sportsmanlike". I agree with aiden o’brien all the way.
CM may have made up 4l by coming from off the pace (which is what hold up horses do) but realistically he was outclassed, well beaten and was only ever playing for third place which he should feel more than happy with as i think that if librettist had been in form could have put him in fourth place.
CM was hardly unlucky!
Who would have won between the GW and markofesteem is very much open to question as the way i see it from that that saturday run George could potentially have went the gallop and out-quickened mark of esteem. With the ground in mind george has had a harsher gallop than MOE and thrown down a better turn of foot.
But its because of the fact that the two will never face each other, who would win is not clear. So i think that you must put GWs qe2 performance in the same bracket as theirs as it was easily in the same class.
Its sickening having an antepost non runner so i mainly just do antepost for fun if i see a good horse at big value. And with the odd exception i seldom lump big amounts on it.
Galatee was entered (along with smart irish 1,000 guineas winner Nightime) for the group2 1m2f event won by red bloom last week, weheras they didnt run its possible a comeback is on its way. fingers crossed.
I reckon that if the champion stakes betting is ratings based (as it often is) that sir percy could be a value bet, he has about 8lbs to find on dylan thomas and ouija board (i personally dont rate the irish champion form as highly as that). Sir percys cruising speed should be perfect for 1m2f and he has a far sharper turn of foot than ouija board (or dylan thomas if he runs) i think he’ll absolutely route the opposition.
I reckon sir percy could win the champion stakes without even being 100%. I think that all of the hype and publicity about sir percys arc attempt has done tregonings stable no harm, but i think he’s alwaysbeen a champion stakes horse and i think i’ll attempt to capitalise on all the speculation of injury in the betting.
I know how you feel max. In the run up to the oaks i was following a horse called galatee, two days before she got a great report from bolger and i lumped £150 on her, 6 hours later she was pulled out. I was gutted
I think he’ll go nto the champion and win it, i thought sir percy would get pulled by the way tregoning was talking the other day on bbc.
Agreed DJ, i think CM looked as i expected at his best, i do think librettist underperformed though (without getting into the o’brien/dettori thing.)
I have always said that sir percy will be a better horse at 1m2f and so im glad that they have decided to stop chasing a pipe dream.
Sir percy to win the champion stakes has to be the cert of the season imho.
I like bad ratings though as the difference betwen a good rating and a bad rating is what i call "value".
Thats why i couldnt beleive georges price drift on early saturday, i wouldnt have touched him at odds on which really he should have been if the bookies had it covered, if i remember correctly, librettist and proclamation were getting decent support beforehand though.
I also had goodricke at 14/1 last year to beat a well hyped proclamation in the sprint cup.
Bad ratings are one of the things that make horse betting stand out from sports bets, where the bookies take the law laws of probability and quote half of that.
I agree EW that the form of the sussex looks to be overrated but thats the way fast ground races sometimes go when the best horse underperforms.
I must say though that I bet on proclamation in the previous sussex but thought his subsequent rp rating was ridiculous as it looked to me like he was just a first run better than soviet song.
It was always obvious to me like most others that araafa had run a bad race in the sussex for reason x,y or z. <br>However, he has always looked like a better horse than court masterpiece and i was more shocked when court masterpiece won the sussex than when araafa returned to form and put CM in his place.
Time and ground are always worth assessing but you must be able to realise when a horse throws in a bad performance, otherwise its useless. On saturday i bet on George Washington with a little safety bet on Araafa because of the ground (should really have done a forecast, but hey ), they always stood out to me as being the two smartest horse in the field.
They both ran as expected, i think its those who honestly thought court masterpiece and librettist were the ones to beat that now believe the ratings are dodgy.
The racing post have upped both horses by about 5lbs, which is pretty fair really.
Killybegs is not a consistant horse however and so a rating for him is almost useless, however his previous form had suggeested he was on his way back to form and i wouldnt have expected him to clock as good a timeas he did so fair play to him
Araafa though is a consistantly improving horse (sussex aside) and whilst he was moving away from the rest of the field george was moving away from him, so i think theratings look pretty honest to me.
I would think that if george was to retire this year and araafa was to stay in training he could more than hold his own next year. (Although realistically he will probably be bought up by godolphin by the end of the season and his racing career will be over.)
I must disagree with anyone who says that george does not merit a rating of 129+.
I thought the guineas field he beat looked good enough to me, araafa is another good horse (who in georges absence would probably clean up), but ran a stinker in the sussex.
On Saturday, in a time 1.24 seconds fast on good to soft, whilst everything else looked one paced by comparison george (despite being a horse who ran 6f faster than a group sprinter in last years phoenix stakes) was always travelling and when a late gap opened in the last furlong he put daylight between himself and the rest of this years milers, and won cosily.
Fair enough, you can say that araafa was 1 and a quarter lengths back and hes no good, but that is just complete rubbish, and that sort of thinking will inevitably cost money. Araafa is a very good miler. But george is an exceptional one.
129+ looks more than reasonable for george, thats not enthusiasm thats just being realistic, if i was being enthusiastic and was to rate him on the scope of the performance id give him 135+.
If you compare time and ground with horses like falbrav, mark of esteem, dubai millenium, and bear in mind georges final furlong acceleration you have to put georges performance up with those.
Im confident that on saturday i witnessed a great miler destroy a QE2 field the way a great miler should, a 10 length romp wasnt really necessary for a good rating.
The only reason ive went as low as 129+ is that the gap opened so late and who knows what the winning margin may have been if it had opened sooner.
I am a person who loves to see a great performance when it occurs and in a season of largely poor performances, i am not going to devalue what has undoubtably been the performance of the season so far.
When you bet against george washington your betting that he doesnt show up, not thast your horse can actually beat him on merit. I cannot help but feel that anything less than 129+ is an insult to a horse who easily rates with the greats.
Id give george 129+, as he was just waiting for a gap to open and as soon as the gap opened a furlong out he treated group1 winners with contempt (fair enough they werent greats in behind but i think 129+ is a fair rating for such a performance against such opposition).
125 would make him a very average QE2 winner which he definitely is not. The racing post have rated the performance 131+ which i think might be a bit on the high side but it was a great performance, even if it looks like he could better it.
Lets face it, if you were to talk about horses who might be able to beat an in form george washington, you have to look back through the history of great milers so 129+ is defitely not unrealistic. He is a special horse.
Well have to agree to diagree there sir harry. If trainers disagree then what was the purpose of cherry mix in the king george?
We may find out next week if the pace is fast and sir percy stays…
Sixties and dylan thomas have since become group1 class but werent on the day as dragon dancer proves with dylan thomas, sixties icon had only just won a maiden at the time of the derby and wasnt even group1 class at royal ascot. Oratorio went on to win group1s last year but he definitely wasnt group1 class in the derby.
I agree that sir percy could prove me wrong but hes been screaming 1m2f at since his dewhurst win last year and i always like to see a horse batter the opposition so it always gets me to see a smart horse at the wrong distance.
Eg. Ive always wanted to see ad valorem go sprinting and with george washington hopefully on the coolmore older miler scene next year, hopefully ad valorem may now get a good sprint campaign instead of waiting for slow mile races where everything drops right.
