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Think you’re onto something there, Drone, certainly in terms of clientele at summer jumps meetings on certain days of the week.
As mentioned before once, Worcester’s meeting on Derby day features some of the most virulent, horrible, cheer-when-it-falls meatheads you’ll ever encounter outside of Haydock. However, the meeting the day after, which I attended this year, was still quite busy but delightfully well-mannered and friendly.
Equally, the only trouble I have ever witnessed in over a dozen trips to Market Rasen was at the 2007 "equinox meeting", the 32red.com Chase day on the last Saturday of September which unofficially (or officially, if you’re Channel 4) concludes the summer season. Beer, vomit, fisticuffs, and some tool evidently intent on nicking off with presenter Stewart Machin’s monitor. Lovely.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
I’ve never seen too much in the way of boorish drunken excess at Stratford, but even at flagship meetings like the hunter chase ones in May, there always seems to be an above-average quotient of people milling round with a drink and friends before, after and significantly during races.
gcI’ll behave myself next year, honest.
Drone, Sunday jumping is immensely popular. The last two evening meetings I’ve been to were busier than the weekday meetings but nowhere near as busy as the average Sunday.
The evidence is flawed though: One evening meeting’s card was up against some football match in Europe and this badly affected the attendance. Another saw incessant rain.
Ironically, it’s the AW action which has a hardcore audience – judging by Sundays, jumps action is more accessible to the wider community. McCoy is a regular visitor and he is considered an Idol and is widely known to the public: His presence helps the gate immensely.
My comment about highbrow was aimed at Lee and Wood following their appearance on The Sunday Forum. Boy, did they talk some patronising broadsheet nonsense about people who go racing. The stands were absolutely packed on Sunday with people who seemingly loved every minute of the action. In Members, you couldn’t be squeezed in with a crow bar: If anyone was hammered, I must have missed them and the only fight I’ve ever seen at Southwell was between a duck and a squirrel on the thirteenth hole.
Ok, the crowd may not obsess about it all like we do, but they certainly joined in the spirit of the games. Maybe they don’t bet like we do either – but surely we can build a broader church congregation than just punters.
LOL @ HJ
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
the only fight I’ve ever seen at Southwell was between a duck and a squirrel on the thirteenth hole.
Mind, both were 7ft tall and the squirrel had Dom Joly inside it.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Thanx Max
Ironically, it’s the AW action which has a hardcore audience – judging by Sundays, jumps action is more accessible to the wider community.
Don’t actually find that ironic, or surprising. Given the large majority of AW meetings are modest and run mid-week, midwinter it’s likely to have a regular if comparitively small number of followers; such as your goodself. And given that the ‘top’ jockeys – who do indeed swell the numbers of casual racegoers – are, I believe, a rarity on the AW only adds to its standing (on course) as a niche market.
Also, without intending to raise the hackles of the AW afficionado, I’d suggest that to the aforementioned casual racegoer the sight of horses racing on grass seems more natural, and hence a more attractive proposition as a ‘day out’.
Ok, the crowd may not obsess about it all like we do, but they certainly joined in the spirit of the games. Maybe they don’t bet like we do either – but surely we can build a broader church congregation than just punters.
Hear, hear
Incidentally I was on course at York today and the reception Sea The Stars got from all sections of the crowd – professionals, punters, young, old, glad-ragged – was rousing and heart-warming. Not a lot wrong in the racing world during minutes like those.
Made the pony entrance fee into Tatts and two-quid gills of coffee seem almost value for money
Nice to see you back on course again, Drone!
Is this a fresh start?I loved my trip to York for the Dante last year. A magic track, worth every penny. By comparison, I went to the July course earlier this year and my son is still going on about the bacon cheeseburger he saw advertised for seven pounds and seventy pence!
He’s a laconic lad generally, but this raised an eyebrow. He didn’t think such a thing was possible. A burger for seven quid – surely one day we’ll look back and laugh at such folly.
What do you think of pop groups and such at racecourses, Drone? I’m not sure I’ve seen you write on the subject.
I loved my trip to York for the Dante last year. A magic track, worth every penny. By comparison, I went to the July course earlier this year and my son is still going on about the bacon cheeseburger he saw advertised for seven pounds and seventy pence!
£7.70 – that’s a bargain – £8.60 at Ascot and that is without the bacon!!!
At the risk of swamping TRF with little-needed negativity, I am somewhat bemused by this summers’ round of “let’s get people interested in racing” stunts.
Racing survives by dint of it’s genuine followers, the overwhelming majority of which bet on the game. In effect, those who bet more or less fund the show (don’t bite, owners). The challenge for racing, therefore, is primarily to refresh this constituency with new blood all the time. I am of the belief that this will happen naturally and at (probably) a similar level to the past.
No amount of Shergar Cups, Ladies’ nights and post-racing concerts will increase that number.
It may leave the uninitiated enjoying the evening, enjoying the racecourse, hell, even enjoying a race and a bet or two. But only as an alternative night out, the chances of converting them to lifetime followers (and punters!) is basically nil. That’s not to say that a well-run attraction may prove beneficial to racecourse attendance and the general ambience of a day/evening at the races. Or not, depending on your view.
There are plenty of ways to fill up Britain’s racecourses. Following the free-entry policy set by Towcester would do the trick. But that’s not the same thing as getting people into a lifetime interest in racing. I don’t think there’s any way this can be done. What makes a football fan? Cricket nut? Rugby waller? They’re just born like it or at most influenced with parental/sibling encouragement. Or do we really think it it was the appearance of the brass band on the pitch at half-time or Bjorn Again performing in the tea interval?
Mike
Lots of common sense in the above post but I do know somebody who only attended his first race meeting because he wanted to see the pop group performing afterwards. His racing friend persuaded him to have a bet for a bit of fun and he picked five winners out of six races ( he obviously did not follow my tips
) and has been hooked on horse racing since. So these special non racing attractions can sometimes benefit racing but it is probably happens rarely.The majority of non gamblers think horse racing is boring to watch. Horse racing exists in it’s present form because it attracts gamblers. It needs gamblers to survive. I do not know anybody who takes any interest in flat racing who does not bet. I know a few who follow the jumps without gambling but they are probably a minority.
One of the reasons that horse racing in HK thrives is because of the gambling mentality of the people there and if horse racing is to be continue successfully in the UK then I think it needs to ensure that it’s product is attractive to the gamblers who will keep it going – this means better quality racing, less race meetings ( in my opinion – I know others disagree ) and proper integrity and for horse racing to not be seen as ‘ a mugs game because it’s all a fiddle ‘ which a lot of my non gambling colleagues view it to be.
I don’t share some people’s optimism that new followers to racing will happen naturally as I think the next generation of gamblers will be attracted more to other types of sports gambling ( especially soccer ) and horse racing may struggle to keep going in it’s present form.
By comparison, I went to the July course earlier this year and my son is still going on about the bacon cheeseburger he saw advertised for seven pounds and seventy pence!
Might that have been a mark-up for a certain meeting, perhaps? I was at the July course a week last Saturday (no, really), and I couldn’t see any of the burger / sausage / scampi / noodle / random-dead-thing stalls ask for more than about £6.50 for that sort of meal.
It was one of the lower-key Saturdays there, with no bands playing and no race better than a class 2 or 3 conditions event. Genuinely don’t know if they adjust price according to magnitude of meeting / size of crowd, or indeed how much economic sense that would make anyway.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Nice to see you back on course again, Drone!
Is this a fresh start?Yesterday was just my fifth excursion to a racecourse this year, and the first since Doncaster in February. Still enjoy it immensely but doubt I’ll ever be a regular racegoer again on the northern circuit.
No bets yesterday but I had a wander around the ring; it does seem to lack the verve of yesteryear
Having visited approximately half the country’s tracks I may make the effort to spread my wings a bit and visit those I haven’t.
30 things to do before you die
Fontwell kick-off again tomorrow and that’s one track I really do want to see in the flesh
What do you think of pop groups and such at racecourses,
Nothing against having live music staged after racing even if the choice of band doesn’t exactly induce me to hang around after racing. I was dragged along to York’s July ‘music weekend’ last year with stage set on the infield opposite the grandstand. A jolly do and judging by the attendance a highly successful one. Though I got the impression many had turned up late in the day just for that rather than the racing beforehand.
There was folk group playing between races yesterday. I congratulated them on a rather good rendition of Donovan’s ‘Colours’
Good time had by all and that’s what it’s all about really, though it will be sardines in a pressure cooker there today.
GC, I went to then July Course on Newbury Super Sprint Cup day. It was a nothing special card, but the place was well attended with a good spread of the racing and non-racing tribe. We really enjoyed the day out and it’s now my lad’s favourite track. I spoke to him last night and he swears he saw the seven pound seventy pence burger and he also reminded me that he was charged two pounds ninety nine pence for a large slush puppy.
Paul, I also told him about the eight pounds sixty pence burger and he now wants to go to Ascot to see it for himself. The last time he was this excited it was a trip to Stamford Bridge.
Drone, I ask about the music because it’s proving a massive success in getting the punters through the doors. And some of the bands are seriously dubious too: I mean,
Bad Manners?
Whoever came up with this marketing plan a few years back deserves an RSB style bonus and needs to be working on Racing For Change.
Anything that gets punters through the door is good in my book, though I do wish they’d use the profits to drop the prices for those bread and butter meetings not entertained by Hot Chocolate. I can see how the hardcore could easily get alienated by the influx and its a short sighted industry indeed which neglects its core customer.
Swallow, your comments and opinions deserve a wider debate. Half of me agrees with you, half of me doesn’t. I’ll go away and think after my tea break.
And some of the bands are seriously dubious too: I mean,
Bad Manners?
They also played the pre-racing gig on one day of the three-day Brighton Festival the other week. Becoming something of a niche act for this sort of engagement? Well, someone keeps booking them.
I’ll leave it to others to decide whether they should dedicate "Lip Up Fatty" to anyone in the sport.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
I am very much in favour of the post racing concerts as the more people who remain for the concert then the easier it is to get away after the final race.
I have to say in the last five or six years I have only remained behind for a concert once and even then I gave up just over half way through.
I ask about the music because it’s proving a massive success in getting the punters through the doors. And some of the bands are seriously dubious too: I mean,
Bad Manners?
Whoever came up with this marketing plan a few years back deserves an RSB style bonus and needs to be working on Racing For Change.
Anything that gets punters through the door is good in my book, though I do wish they’d use the profits to drop the prices for those bread and butter meetings not entertained by Hot Chocolate. I can see how the hardcore could easily get alienated by the influx and its a short sighted industry indeed which neglects its core customer.
The number of second division pop groups to have graced the hit-parade over the last fifty years still strumming-out a paunchy, balding grey-templed existence at lowbrow venues into this millennium is amazing – Smokey, The Swinging Blue Jeans (gawd ‘elp us) – to name but two. Cheap bookings and of dubious merit, but names familiar enough to draw a curious audience, intent on enjoying themselves whatever.
I wasn’t really paying attention during my musical evening-out on t’mire last summer but I believe we were being entertained by that recent innovation: the Tribute Band, in this case ‘Queen’.
Actually I’m of the opinion that the ‘worth’ of the music being performed on such evenings is of little importance; it’s the fact it’s a novel and fun few hours in the company of nearest-and-dearest away from the normal evening drear slumped in front of Eastenders that people enjoy.
So in that respect I believe it matters little if Bad Manners and Hot Chocolate are wheeled out to entertain the punters.
Personally, classing myself as I do as a member of your "hardcore" of racegoers/punters, I don’t feel alienated by such subsidiary attractions at all as like anything else that doesn’t interest me I can simply ignore it and go home. Anyway give me post-racing concerts everytime over mid-racing beer swills, which I can’t ignore and to quote a quasi-sociological phrase ‘invades my personal space’
As you say these concerts have become very popular, hence it would be reasonable to assume they generate a healthy profit. So I would agree with you that the racecourses should use their topped-up coffers to subsidise run-of-the-mill meetings, rather than dissappear into the void used to top up the 300K International Stakes winner’s purse.
There’s much to question and criticise in racing, post-race concerts from crappy bands ain’t one of them.
There’s much to question and criticise in racing, post-race concerts from crappy bands ain’t one of them.
Indeed not.
So I would agree with you that the racecourses should use their topped-up coffers to subsidise run-of-the-mill meetings, rather than dissappear into the void used to top up the 300K International Stakes winner’s purse.
How much did York have to find, Drone? This is the real issue for debate, particularly in the light of John Gosden’s jarring post-race comments in the aftermath of Dar Re Mi’s victory.
Is this a fresh start?
) and has been hooked on horse racing since. So these special non racing attractions can sometimes benefit racing but it is probably happens rarely.- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.