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Windsor Castle Stakes

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  • #1734530
    apracing
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    • Total Posts 4009

    The recent announcement of changes to this race starting next year, has produced plenty of negative responses from trainers. So what are the facts?

    Here’s the official statement from the BHA:

    Changes to Windsor Castle Stakes at Royal Ascot from 2026

    The line from this that struck me as the most telling is:

    “For some time now the FPC has been working in conjunction with the European Pattern Committee (EPC) to strengthen the middle-distance and staying horse divisions, and so this change is a small part of that wider focus.”

    A small part eh, but big enough to completely change the structure of a successful existing race. Successful that is in producing a large field, a competitive race and one that is regularly won by a horse that goes on to bigger things. Recent examples – Little Big Bear and Big Evs. Neither of them would have been qualified under the new conditions.

    But the basic flaw in my opinion, is that it’s total nonsense to suggest that a race like this run over 6F in June, is going to have any influence at all in breeding or buying decisions. Future middle distance and staying horses that are ready to run so early as a 2yo, are few and far between.

    And there’s plenty of evidence that this sort of race simply doesn’t deliver such horses in the recent results of the Chesham Stakes. Of the last ten winners prior to this year, only two have managed a win at 10F or further and only one of them has emerged as a proper stayer – Point Lonsdale. To be totally fair, last year’s winner Bedtime Story has recently finished second in the Prix De Diane and may well add to the list of 10F+ winners.

    The best horses to win the Chesham in that period have been those who go on to prove top class at a mile – Churchill and Pinatubo.

    Overall, this looks like a prime example of the ‘something must be done’ school, that is so often the result of having a committee whose sole purpose is to implement change. In this case I’d suggest that the something that must be done, is to think again and consider the actual evidence.

    As a final example of how daft this change is, consider Little Big Bear, the 2022 Windsor Castle winner. As I mentioned above, he would not have been qualified to run in the race under the proposed change, as his sire No Nay Never didn’t win a race at 7F. But he would have been qualified to run in the Chesham Stakes despite the record of No Nay Never, because that race also allows runners whose dam won over 10F to enter. And the dam of Little Big Bear was a Listed winner over 10.5F in France.

    This is entering Alice In Wonderland territory!

    #1734535
    Avatar photoPurwell
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    • Total Posts 1618

    If it ain’t broke, why fix it?

    I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
    I've walked and I crawled on six crooked highways
    #1734536
    Avatar photoRefuse To Bend
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4192

    I’m no expert but would a horse that was bred to be suitable for the new requirements actually cost more money therefore restricting the owners who traditionally target this race as opposed to giving them an incentive.

    The more I know the less I understand.

    #1734539
    Avatar photoCork All Star
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    • Total Posts 11797

    “If it ain’t broke, why fix it?”

    Because as AP said, committees feel the need to justify their existence. If they did nothing, people would ask what they are for. I don’t know if the people involved are paid but I imagine they like feeling important.

    The same applies in politics. A lot of legislation is unnecessary meddling but all these professional politicians have to justify their existence. The country would run perfectly well on half the legislation, possibly less.

    These are the Flat Pattern Committee members who think tinkering with the conditions of a successful race is a productive use of time:

    Lydia Hislop (Chair)
    Emma Berry
    Gina Bryce
    Simon Crisford
    William Haggas
    Richard Norris
    Rishi Persad
    Maddy Playle
    Ruth Quinn
    Julian Richmond-Watson
    Nick Smith
    Nicholas Wrigley

    #1734547
    GSP
    Participant
    • Total Posts 495

    Rishi Persad?
    My, he gets around?
    There was a thread about him a while back started by……

    #1734549
    Avatar photoEx RubyLight
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5853

    Who the f*** is Maddy Playle? Apart from pretending to be a RP pundit/tipster I have no clue why a person like her would influence the sport that much?

    Oh, and Lydia loves changes. She likes being part of a new sort of experiment….

    #1735286
    Avatar photoyeats
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    • Total Posts 3695

    Gina Bryce? Rishi Persad? Maddy Playle?
    The mind boggles – It smacks of jobs for the boys, they’ve hardly got the credentials or knowledge to do this sort of thing.

    Similarly the jumps pattern committee consists of the likes of Simon Clare, Lee Mottershead and Binny Ryle.

    Why don’t they have committee that does something really useful, like drastically reducing the number of fixtures, something that’s been needed for years.

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