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GT
I don’t blame you!
Woolf
In 11 pages of this thread the only example you have provided was a "I’ve got this mate who said…."
Scene – A Courtroom in Woolfland
Woolf121 (pointing) – "All those people did it"
Judge – " And what evidence have you got?"
Woolf121 – " My mate said they did it!"
Judge – " Yes, but what evidence have you got that they did it?"
Woolf121 – "I know they did it"
Judge – " Yes, but we need some evidence that they did it"
Woolf121 – "I keep saying they did it"
Judge – "Oh alright, five years to the lot of you"
The throng – " We didn’t do it!"
Judge – Yes, but Woolf says everyone’s doing it, so you must have done it. Send them down!"
…and Woolf121 lived happily ever! Well, apart from from having nothing to complain about…
Rob (exits stage left)
Simplistic and ill informed. You need to become connected. If you’re out of the loop you’re a loser.
I won’t bite tongue. Woolf you’re talking nonsense and you’re obviously the loser, simplistic and uninformed.
That aside, of course it’s possible to make a profit and for those prepared to put in the ocmmitment it’s possible to make a decent living.
Seriously, how many people make ‘a decent living’? You see the ‘names’ pitching up on RUK because presumably they can’t make a decent living by betting alone.
The mere fact that bookmakers will close accounts means that you will need a lot more than swallowing a form book. What is your definition of ‘commitment’?
stilvi
Commitment (rather than then ‘ocmittment’ I mis-typingly referred to earlier) in this case is the work involved in seeking out profitable avenues. That isn’t just looking at the weights and distances, doing a few sums and thinking that the resultant figures are the answer. It’s about finding patterns that ‘the crowd’ don’t see or don’t care about. It may involve going ot the course and observing race horses on a regular basis, looking for ‘left-field trends’ that others don’t consider or playing the variations in the market. Gingertipster does the latter by seeking out the longest price on his selctions, and covers the percentages by backing more than one horse in a race.
The game is a marginal one, with built in negative expectancy and the percentage of punters who come out on top is always going to be in the minority. Doesn’t mean it can’t be done though. The majority are in the game either for fun, through greed or compulsion. If you wish to refer to them as mugs then so be it, but on that basis into more a mug’s game than the Lottery, Bingo, Casinos or a hundred and one others ways of risking money for gain. If the Lottery punters are all mugs then there’s millions of them, but most go in knowing exactly where they stand and with no illusions about chances of winning. No reason to think the percentages of mugs is any different to any other form of betting, though I do find the growth of FOTB betting rather disturbing The latter is one area where I definitely agree with Prof. Trubshawe.
The one advantage that the horse racing punter has is that if he grafts a bit he has a chance of turning the negative expectancy into positive one. Not easy but possible. Whether it’s a grind or an enjoyable pastime is pretty much up to the individual and no more or less compelling than any other profession. I met Alan Potts a couple of times and have been involved in discussions on this forum with him. It’s clear Alan has combined making money with his enjoyment of the sport.
Rob
stilvi
Commitment (rather than then ‘ocmittment’ I mis-typingly referred to earlier) in this case is the work involved in seeking out profitable avenues. That isn’t just looking at the weights and distances, doing a few sums and thinking that the resultant figures are the answer. It’s about finding patterns that ‘the crowd’ don’t see or don’t care about. It may involve going ot the course and observing race horses on a regular basis, looking for ‘left-field trends’ that others don’t consider or playing the variations in the market. Gingertipster does the latter by seeking out the longest price on his selctions, and covers the percentages by backing more than one horse in a race.
The game is a marginal one, with built in negative expectancy and the percentage of punters who come out on top is always going to be in the minority. Doesn’t mean it can’t be done though. The majority are in the game either for fun, through greed or compulsion. If you wish to refer to them as mugs then so be it, but on that basis into more a mug’s game than the Lottery, Bingo, Casinos or a hundred and one others ways of risking money for gain. If the Lottery punters are all mugs then there’s millions of them, but most go in knowing exactly where they stand and with no illusions about chances of winning. No reason to think the percentages of mugs is any different to any other form of betting, though I do find the growth of FOTB betting rather disturbing The latter is one area where I definitely agree with Prof. Trubshawe.
The one advantage that the horse racing punter has is that if he grafts a bit he has a chance of turning the negative expectancy into positive one. Not easy but possible. Whether it’s a grind or an enjoyable pastime is pretty much up to the individual and no more or less compelling than any other profession. I met Alan Potts a couple of times and have been involved in discussions on this forum with him. It’s clear Alan has combined making money with his enjoyment of the sport.
Rob
Pretentious nonsense from an obvious anorak. It’s about pitting one horse against another or others in a test of speed and stamina, if it isn’t about that what hell is it about?
No amount of graft will reveal the hidden qualities of a horse that has been sent out to lose on his last several outings.
stilvi
Commitment (rather than then ‘ocmittment’ I mis-typingly referred to earlier) in this case is the work involved in seeking out profitable avenues. That isn’t just looking at the weights and distances, doing a few sums and thinking that the resultant figures are the answer. It’s about finding patterns that ‘the crowd’ don’t see or don’t care about. It may involve going ot the course and observing race horses on a regular basis, looking for ‘left-field trends’ that others don’t consider or playing the variations in the market. Gingertipster does the latter by seeking out the longest price on his selctions, and covers the percentages by backing more than one horse in a race.
The game is a marginal one, with built in negative expectancy and the percentage of punters who come out on top is always going to be in the minority. Doesn’t mean it can’t be done though. The majority are in the game either for fun, through greed or compulsion. If you wish to refer to them as mugs then so be it, but on that basis into more a mug’s game than the Lottery, Bingo, Casinos or a hundred and one others ways of risking money for gain. If the Lottery punters are all mugs then there’s millions of them, but most go in knowing exactly where they stand and with no illusions about chances of winning. No reason to think the percentages of mugs is any different to any other form of betting, though I do find the growth of FOTB betting rather disturbing The latter is one area where I definitely agree with Prof. Trubshawe.
The one advantage that the horse racing punter has is that if he grafts a bit he has a chance of turning the negative expectancy into positive one. Not easy but possible. Whether it’s a grind or an enjoyable pastime is pretty much up to the individual and no more or less compelling than any other profession. I met Alan Potts a couple of times and have been involved in discussions on this forum with him. It’s clear Alan has combined making money with his enjoyment of the sport.
Rob
Pretentious nonsense from an obvious anorak. It’s about pitting one horse against another or others in a test of speed and stamina, if it isn’t about that what hell is it about?
No amount of graft will reveal the hidden qualities of a horse that has been sent out to lose on his last several outings.
Ok give us some examples from this weeks racing.
Pretentious nonsense from an obvious anorak.
What on earth does that response even
mean
? Rob’s reply is not ‘pretentious’ in any way and it certainly isn’t nonsense, it’s pretty much spot on.
I think you display two well-acknowledged psychological traits. Firstly, you mock things you don’t understand in order to diminish their importance in your mind. This ‘permits’ yourself to carry on in ignorance of such affairs (in this case, the maths of betting).
Secondly, you display Freud’s common anxiety-reducer of ‘projection’. In short, this means you deny your failings by projecting them onto everyone else. Thus you believe everyone in horse racing is bent because were you to be in their position, you would be!
It’s not all bad news though, as pretty much all of us succumb to one or the other on a frequent basis.
Mike
I’ts hardly suprising the majority lose in gambling industries, given some of the absurd mental issues and outlooks highlighted in this thread.
Pretentious nonsense from an obvious anorak.
What on earth does that response even
mean
? Rob’s reply is not ‘pretentious’ in any way and it certainly isn’t nonsense, it’s pretty much spot on.
I think you display two well-acknowledged psychological traits. Firstly, you mock things you don’t understand in order to diminish their importance in your mind. This ‘permits’ yourself to carry on in ignorance of such affairs (in this case, the maths of betting).
Secondly, you display Freud’s common anxiety-reducer of ‘projection’. In short, this means you deny your failings by projecting them onto everyone else. Thus you believe everyone in horse racing is bent because were you to be in their position, you would be!
It’s not all bad news though, as pretty much all of us succumb to one or the other on a frequent basis.
Mike
Are you Dr. Betlarge? Or, more likely, did you once read a dog eared paperback called ‘Psychiatry for Dummies’? Robnorth’s post is pure twaddle dressed up to obfuscate and appear as some scientific jargon filled treatise on mathematics in racing.
Are you Dr. Betlarge? Or, more likely, did you once read a dog eared paperback called ‘Psychiatry for Dummies’?
Unlikely as I was expanding theories of psychology, not psychiatry. And I’m not a doctor.
Oh, and you’re exhibiting that first trait again…
Mike
Are you Dr. Betlarge? Or, more likely, did you once read a dog eared paperback called ‘Psychiatry for Dummies’?
Unlikely as I was expanding theories of psychology, not psychiatry. And I’m not a doctor.
Oh, and you’re exhibiting that first trait again…
Mike
OK, so it was ‘Psychology for Dummies’.
Total Division of the ranks sums this superb thread.Rob north is doing a splendid job along with Betlarge in portraying the sport of Kings as the greatest game in the world played by those who know the rules.On the other hand the Prof and Woolf are painting what is in effect a Black and White rule book written by the BHA all the colours under the sun and bending them like a Rainbow, to which end lays a pot of Gold.How we achieve our Gold is the same way anyone else in the history of the world has and that includes foul aswell as fair play! I agree with both sides of this debate and the way its being conducted is superb,extremely valid points all round,Thats Horseracing for you!
I think people just have different experiences at the end of the day and that affects their views. I have always, and I mean always, been subject to the most terrible sods’ law. Certain punters on here, who clearly invest an awful lot of ego in their activities, say this is a mere excuse for ‘inadequacies’. I feel that because racing involves human beings and animals, the scope for luck, bad and good is huge.
Prof
There are a good few who would say the last point is true. However, to get ahead in any field of life you have to make good judgements on what you can control. Look to see what is in your favour or likely to be in your favour and make use, while making due provision for the chance of outside factors having an influence.
Sometimes though you just have to step back and have a bit of a laugh at the way things work out. I can think of one instance at Fontwell when I had backed two horses, one of which fell at the second fence and then got up to hamper and take out my other selection at the fourth! B*gger! Sh*t happens, but make a percentage allowance in the price and you can cover these eventualities it the long term. The majority don’t see things in the long term.
Rob
The thrills and spills of racing you make allowances for, and then you must allow for jockeys who make mistakes and then you allow for horses that are going to win in a few weeks time and then you make allowances for horses that were due to win but for one reason or another they didn’t perform on the day. Then there are good horses that ”caught a tartar” in Wm Hill radio speak. It all mounts up to you saying ”the end, I’m going to save my money”.
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