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What a disappointing race!

Home Forums Horse Racing What a disappointing race!

Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 166 total)
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  • #151144
    GhostofTheFellow
    Member
    • Total Posts 410

    Although i laid this horse for ”silly money” I wouldnt rule out Kauto Star just yet,his jumping came back to haunt him.

    Denman had a free reighn and it was a pretty poor bunch,probably only about 3 outside Denham and Kauto Star that could have caused a shock.

    Take nothing away from the winner ..raw talent who could be the next big thing.

    #151158
    rolandroland
    Member
    • Total Posts 302

    the new official ratings are
    masterminded 186
    denman 185
    kaoto star 180
    neptune 178
    that is from the handicapper phil smith who spoke to paul nicheols in the paddock before last race at chelt today…………..

    i’m not disappointed in the race at all, as per title thread, but if we’re going by the official handicapper kauto has raced to within 1lb of his best rating when jumping poorly including smacking the last where he lost plenty of momentum. i can’t have that at all.
    personally i’d have denman running to 4-5lb below that, on a par with kautos best.

    #151159
    mrcjevans
    Member
    • Total Posts 31

    the new official ratings are
    masterminded 186
    denman 185
    kaoto star 180
    neptune 178
    that is from the handicapper phil smith who spoke to paul nicheols in the paddock before last race at chelt today…………..

    i’m not disappointed in the race at all, as per title thread, but if we’re going by the official handicapper kauto has raced to within 1lb of his best rating when jumping poorly including smacking the last where he lost plenty of momentum. i can’t have that at all.
    personally i’d have denman running to 4-5lb below that, on a par with kautos best.

    Yup your right mate, the only way that can be true is if we really an’t seen the best of Kauto Star

    #151162
    johnjdonoghue
    Member
    • Total Posts 994

    My argument hinges on whether it was a slow race or not, if it was (like last year) then of course Kauto ran below form, if it was a quick race, unlike one Kauto has ever been in before then it’s entirely plausible he’s ran to form and just couldn’t jump or travel at ease under pace. I think Findlay should be a fortune teller he told the whole world what was going to happen.

    He’s won Grade One events over 2 miles – of course he can jump AND travel with a strong pace.

    We all knew Denman was going to inject pace into the race, it was just a matter of when. Kauto was never travelling, even before Denman’s surge.

    Oh no, I hope Findlay doesn’t come out with his ‘Denman broke their hearts nonsense’.

    He probably will Bosranic. well done to Denman, but please, Kauto Star did not travel a yard today, did not look himself, reminded me of Azertyuiop’s final Champion chase, just very lathergic.

    JohnJ.

    #151164
    Fist of Fury 2k8
    Member
    • Total Posts 2931

    Denman will be an even better horse with a nice break Beckster, Master Minded was definately the fresher horse of the two. Personally I would love to see Master Minded carry some weight in a handicap like Kauto did, not that that will ever happen he’s just so good.

    I’m a huge fan of Master Minded marb he looks an awesome prospect
    He is a beutifully composed horse with no quirks about him.

    He could be the best 2 miler since Dunkirk second to none.

    He looks that good to me.

    Having said that people greatly over rated T/bleu, Twist magic in PN’s own words is a summer horse……he would have been well saying this wont be his day. So once again we were left with a head to head between last years QMCC winner and MM. He’s beaten him easier if anything. so has he improved or id VPU gone backwards………remember he has done nothing this season except win one bad race.

    I take pride in spotting good horse like Binocular Sizing Europe etc and this horse blew me away at Newbury……..I just wonder about VPU because he’s the only line we have.

    He’s the first 5yo ever to win the QMCC and he deserves a lot of credit for that, but we really don’t know how good the form is.

    Tiday Bay has destoyed a Noland and co and has also put up a terrific performance………..he came up the hill so esily he ws like a hurdler in an all out finish at Kempton. He also lloks to have agreat future ahead of him.

    Next season if those two meet and MM can do to him what he did to VPUthen he will be something to talk about as a great horse,,,,,,,,as much as I like him and as much as I think he looks to be a brilliant horse I don’t think beating the same horse twice entitles him to the Superstar staus quite yet.

    #151167
    Neil Watson
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1376

    I thought it was a good race and a fine example of how tactics work.

    Denman and Sam Thomas new how to exploit Kauto Star and boy did they do it and is was quite like the run in Aintree when Kauto got beaten.

    #151170
    rolandroland
    Member
    • Total Posts 302

    In other words if Kauto had still jumped badly and improved 7 & a half lengths today and beat Denman by half a length the form of the race would be o.k,

    exactly………..not a truer word said. :wink:

    but in all seriousness i think the forms rock solid, just 4-5lb lower than phil smith it seems.

    #151181
    rolandroland
    Member
    • Total Posts 302

    hope Denman’s owners don;t get sucked into scrapping with Kauto, and allowing their campaign to be mapped around rematches with Kauto. I hope they stick with their aim of sending him to Aintree for the National – and maybe they will emulate the great Golden Miller and win the Gold Cup and National in the same season. Based on his Hennessey victory their is little reason to suspect he cannot hump top weight around Liverpool!

    i dont see if they have a coice really. surely they have to take the haydock route just to see if they can get the 1st leg at least of the betfair million.

    #151182
    Running ReinRunning Rein
    Participant
    • Total Posts 185

    Some interesting opinions, lots of knowledge and I have learned a bit reading through it all.
    One thing I would say with absolute certainty though is that Neptunes Collonge does not hold the form down.I have followed this horses career from his days in France and I thought he had a really good chance to win today if the top two didn’t get home in the ground (or fell). This has been the first time imho since he came to race in this country that NC has had abolutely optimum conditions. I rated him about a stone above his official mark going into the GC. As it happened Denman at least saw it out fully.
    I think the form is solid Denman is the best horse and that KS is best below 26 furlongs, but Denman could still be better at 3miles.

    #151185
    sberrysberry
    Member
    • Total Posts 1801

    denman ran and won like a superstar – end of – great performance, superb – the best horse out there

    i was on kauto star :(

    #151193
    seabird
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2925

    Surely, only a disappointing race if you are a fan, backer or connection of Kauto Star.

    His jumping was not up to standard on the day.

    But Denman did all that could be expected of him, the pressure he applies mid-race through his galloping is very difficult to overcome and his jumping holds up very well.

    He did tire at the end and maybe 3m 2f. is beyond his optimum trip at the moment.

    Colin

    #151195
    cheltboy
    Member
    • Total Posts 129

    In short, the best jumper won. KS made too many minor errors.
    I had always thought Denman was a machine, and he proved this convincingly

    #151210
    scallywag76scallywag76
    Member
    • Total Posts 280

    Well said Simon.

    The quality of Denmans performance was not as good as Kauto Stars King George performance, or Master Mindeds Queen Mother for that matter.

    Real strength of depth in the KG, especially with different riding tactics being adopted for Exotic Dancer and what on earth has the Queen Mother got to do with the integrity of Denman’s performance?

    Some amazing twaddle being expressed in this thread. A disappointing race? Yes, it may not have produced the cliffhanger of a finish that would have topped things off but an awesome performance nevertheless. Looking at replays of the Arkle / Mills House GC, the finish there would hardly have had the nation reaching for beta-blockers.

    Before the race, KS was touted in many corners as being unbeatable – never off the bridle when 100%, this winner of 15 of his 26 races. We were also reminded that this wasn’t a 2-horse race, with Exotic Dancer providing a value bet and Knowhere being capable of sinking all. Perhaps they all had an off day.

    The comments about NC’s proximity to KS are a red herring. It’s hardly unusual to see outsiders raise their game in a big race and achieve a never to be repeated performance – Clive Brittain makes a living out of it!

    I’m not sure that I’ve seen such a spectacle in a Gold Cup before but perhaps someone can inform us of the other occasions when the race was dominated by one horse in this fashion during the last 40-odd years?

    #151221
    becksterbeckster
    Member
    • Total Posts 292

    Well said Simon.

    The quality of Denmans performance was not as good as Kauto Stars King George performance, or Master Mindeds Queen Mother for that matter.

    Real strength of depth in the KG, especially with different riding tactics being adopted for Exotic Dancer and what on earth has the Queen Mother got to do with the integrity of Denman’s performance?

    Some amazing twaddle being expressed in this thread. A disappointing race? Yes, it may not have produced the cliffhanger of a finish that would have topped things off but an awesome performance nevertheless. Looking at replays of the Arkle / Mills House GC, the finish there would hardly have had the nation reaching for beta-blockers.

    Before the race, KS was touted in many corners as being unbeatable – never off the bridle when 100%, this winner of 15 of his 26 races. We were also reminded that this wasn’t a 2-horse race, with Exotic Dancer providing a value bet and Knowhere being capable of sinking all. Perhaps they all had an off day.

    The comments about NC’s proximity to KS are a red herring. It’s hardly unusual to see outsiders raise their game in a big race and achieve a never to be repeated performance – Clive Brittain makes a living out of it!

    I’m not sure that I’ve seen such a spectacle in a Gold Cup before but perhaps someone can inform us of the other occasions when the race was dominated by one horse in this fashion during the last 40-odd years?

    NEPTUNE WAS NOT a complete outsider who raised his game…… and the never repeated performance? whats that all about? he set goodpace lastyear til 2nd from home.. and was used as pacemaker 4 kaoto lastyear to slow himdown,and then went on to win unchestown goldcup and then performance today was outstanding. this is a promicing young horse who is forever improving………………….! :evil: :lol:

    #151222
    carvillshill
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2778

    Just logging on at the airport on the way home and can hardly believe the title of this thread. If any of you don’t realise how special that race was today you should take up watching another sport- soccer, perhaps. That was the greatest demolition of a high-class horse I have ever witnessed in my lifetime or am ever likely to. The winner is the best steeplechaser we have seen since Arkle and if he stays sound he will prove it conclusively over the next few seasons by being allowed to put up the huge handicap performances that Best Mate never did, because he wouldn’t have been able. He outjumped, outstayed and outclassed a dual King George and reigning Gold Cup winner with raw power and class- stand back and applaud because this was someting we were privileged to see.
    I happened to be walking beside Peter O’Sullevan coming down off the stand and he agreed with me that he’d have had to use his famous phrase " This is the best we’ve seen for a long time" a second time had he been calling today’s race. Shame on any of you that are looking for negatives about what we saw today.

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