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The Many Clouds situation is an odd one. Hemmings effectively and publicly castigated Sherwood on Saturday by saying ‘no matter how much his trainer might want him to, he is not going to the Hennessy.’ This morning Sherwood has said in a slight mangling of words, he is ‘totally in cahoots’ with Hemmings on this now, and the National is the target. Hemmings overruled him at Aintree and has done so again for Newbury. I wonder if the relationship will last the season, or if someone like the seriously wounded (having lost 50 horses) Don McCain might end up with a National horse again?
Despite owner and trainer putting a brave face on Saturday’s performance, the horse ran considerably worse than expected given the pre-race noises and the market support. He was as flat as he was in the Gold Cup, with no response to pressure. There is a potential excuse this time in that the National victory might have done for him, as it has for so many others. He’s a horse who naturally gives everything, and unless campaigned very carefully, you simply cannot keep doing that at the highest level.
I hope he’s okay. Time will tell.
I suppose Many Clouds was always going to turn up half-fit at the weekend. It’s a long season and his priority list is as follows:
1. GRAND NATIONAL
2. ‘2nd Division’ 3m Chases e.g. the Pillar, the Denman Chase…
3. Unrealistic ‘out of his league’ races like the Betfair Chase and Gold CupIf Many Clouds was fine-tuned for the Charlie Hall in October, he’d stand very little chance of running to his best in the Grand National or picking up any of those other pots.
If Many Clouds was fine-tuned for the Charlie Hall in October, he’d stand very little chance of running to his best in the Grand National or picking up any of those other pots.
Agreed. He wasn’t fine-tuned but obviously making sufficiently melodic sounds for his connections to be singing his praises, and for the market to echo them (13/2 to 9/2 in 48 hours). No question, in my mind at least, that he was expected to run much better.
And he’d hardly be out of his league in any race, sitting just 5lbs behind the current Gold Cup holder. He’s a very talented horse. The question is, how much did the National take out of him. At the moment, nobody knows the answer.
Isn’t it 25 years since a Grand National winner has subsequently won a race? Many Clouds would have to be Champion The Wonder Horse to defy that statistic. It would seem that horses these days leave so much of themselves behind at Aintree that they don’t have anything left for future races.
”Schooling in Public” used to be an offence back in the day when there was still a modicum of integrity in racing.
Thanks for the replies.
Homer – you make a decent analogy regarding Farah which I have to take board, but would Farah trail in lapped saying that had “blown the cobwebs away” saying he’d “come on a bundle”?
Regarding the “trip to the racecourse” stuff, that could surely be arranged without running under rules? I smell a rat there tbf, are you attached to a yard?
All sounds like ‘side mouth’ talk to me.
There was a fella once who proved a lot of the ‘side mouth’ talk to be the nonsense I had always suspected.
But Mr. Pipe had to put up with a whole load of slurs from people unhappy he was highlighting their incompetence.
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The stewards don` t really bother with schooling in the public too often . JP would hardly ever get a handicap win if they did. Sherwood was one who did fall foul of it with Furrows.
Colin Tizzard suggested that having had three winners one day the other week, he sensed his horses were ready. Subsequent events had changed his mind and Cue Card had been given a racecourse gallop prior to Saturday.
None of the horses carrying 11-10 got involved at the business end in The Charlie Hall ( Sam Winner ran pretty well). Concession of 10 lbs in this sort of race does seem difficult
Not quite 25 years – the 2002 winner Bindaree went on to win the 2003 Welsh National. And Silver Birch won on his next start after his Aintree success, although it was only a Ladies Open point to point.
Many Clouds has more in common with the same owners Hedgehunter in terms of ability, and he managed to finish second in the irish and Cheltenham Gold Cups after his National win.
The question is, how much did the National take out of him. At the moment, nobody knows the answer.
Don’t believe that is a factor with just being another long distance chase these days, he probably had a harder race in the Gold Cup last year and that didn’t do him any harm in the National.
With the prize money being so good in the National compared to other handicap chases the race is the sole aim for horses that win it and shown an aptitude for the track. Why waste your time in 30 or 40 grand handicaps and possibly compromising your chances in the big one for £500k? As Pineau De Re & Auroras Encore showed anything can win the race these days even bad jumpers.
Truth is that even though it has been turned into a glorified long distance limited handicap to encourage the top rated horses to run, nobody knows what mark the National leaves on a horse until they run again (although the most recent winners could hardly be described as G1 horses anyway). The signs on Saturday were not encouraging and connections must be hanging onto the hope that they just badly misjudged how fit he was going into the race.
Looking back at his season last year, although he won 4 out of 5 races if you look at the bare bones of the form it is not that of a top G1 chaser, but more of a good old fashion long distance staying chaser:
In receipt of 6lbs he beat Eduard under 2L over 2m4f at Carlisle on soft ground
In receipt of 6lbs he beat Houblon Des Obeaux just over 3L in Hennessy over 3m2f on soft ground
Giving 8lbs he beat Smad Place and Dynaste (level weight) just under 2L at Cheltenham over 3m1f on soft ground
In the Gold Cup he was beaten 25L but still finished 2L in front of Smad Place
In the National he beat typical National type horses in Saint Are, Monbeg Dude, Alvarado & Shutthefrontdoor etc who are not good enough to run in G1 races.Remember he was absolutely out on his feet at the end of the Hennessy against good but not G1 horses – I think the mark he is on is a bit higher than it should be and if he shows up in the top G1 races against the current crop, I don’t see him cutting much ice – he looks much more like a National (all versions) and Bet365 Gold Cup type of horse to me.
In the National he beat typical National type horses in Saint Are, Monbeg Dude, Alvarado & Shutthefrontdoor etc who are not good enough to run in G1 races.
Remember he was absolutely out on his feet at the end of the Hennessy against good but not G1 horses – I think the mark he is on is a bit higher than it should be and if he shows up in the top G1 races against the current crop, I don’t see him cutting much ice – he looks much more like a National (all versions) and Bet365 Gold Cup type of horse to me.
Typical National horses, perhaps, but you neglect to say he was giving them between 15lbs and 20lbs. He was indeed very tired at the end of his Hennessy, but that’s his racing style. On his game, he’ll give his all (Sherwood has said more than once the horse will run into a brick wall for you). The only times I’ve seen him fail to do that was in the Gold Cup and on Saturday.
No horse can keep racing in that all-out style forever, especially round Aintree with 11.9. I hope very much to see him back at his best, but his next run will tell an important tale.
I would like to think all horses run in an ‘all-out style’ SC. Not sure what you mean by that.
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TTC, it’s typified by that neck-stretching, full out gallop where a horse will just keep trying and trying almost irrespective of what his jockey wants. Many Clouds at the end of the Hennessy is a perfect example. Katchit, at his best, had the same appetite, and he showed it throughout a race, rather than just at the end. But he paid the price.
The more extreme the work level, the more prone a horse becomes to bleeding in its lungs; I suspect this is what is behind many of the ‘all-out’ types eventually losing their power. It could also be a reason why National winners rarely come back the same.
And unlike many of the recent winners, age is on his side. Even if he has a disappointing campaign this time, a few pound drop in the handicap may see him back in 2016/17 when he will still only be 9/10. Trevor Hemmings hasn’t got much left to do in the National but I’m sure he would love a dual winner. Let’s hope the horse has enough left to give to at least give him a sniff of this dream.
Not questioning that he is a very good horse that will literally have to be carried out on his shield in a race but I would still class him at best as a top long distance staying handicap chaser that has the ability to give weight away to lower rated handicappers. Yes he was giving weight to all bar one in the National but also bear in mind that that win was off of a mark that was actually 5lbs lower than his official rating was going into the race, which you could argue was the difference between him winning and finishing 2nd.
I agree that he may have underperformed somewhat in the Gold Cup but could that also be in part because he was mixing it for the first time at level weights against proven G1 performers in Coneygree, Djakadam & Road To Riches?
The next few years could potentially be a golden age for staying chasers (similar to how the mid to late 70’s was for hurdling) and I just can’t see him being good enough to win a King George or Gold Cup or even another Hennessy for that matter and given who his owner is (and his recent comments), I wouldn’t be surprised to see him campaigned strictly around the Nationals from now on.
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