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No not on-course Sean, off course (at least to start with).
My post was just to indicate why second strings can be well backed, without any skulduggery being involved, by people in the know.
Ginge
Value Is EverythingDidn’t see this thread earlier and would have to reiterate that the in running patterns were strange, or rather the amounts of money put up to lay the favourite were extremely surprising given the way the race was panning out. I lost a considerable sum backing the jolly with orders to lay it back at varying degrees of odds on. He travelled and jumped very well in the early to mid stages of the race and it would have been expected that his price would have contracted in running in normal circumstances (especially as he was forecast to be comfortably odds on pre race); It was therefore highly surprising that his price held at odds against for considerable sums almost throughout the race. This trading was not that of customers of any tipping service, nor of the bookmakers who had liabilities on the supposed second string.
Thanks for that, Rory.
I gathered that betting patterns were quite strange.Sorry, Ginge, you’ve confused me even more: were you saying that bookmakers in the shops "see the right people betting"?
More to do with telephone accounts than shops Sean. Bookmakers have some customers accounts they keep an eye on. When a client has a very good record when backing a certain trainer, the bookmaker will see he is backing a particular horse from that yard and are in effect tipped off by this. So the bookie then shortens its price because the money coming for the horse is from the "right people".
Hopefully this clears any misunderstanding Sean but please if it doesn’t.
Ginge
Value Is EverythingThank you for your reply again, Ginge!
I am still a bit hazy about the actual mechanics of the thing, but not to worry.In any case, is there anything wrong in owners, trainers, jockeys, or stable staff laying their own favourites, d’you think?
Many people say that this is no different from backing the field against the fav. I was wondering if laying just one short-priced runner would be a lot easier and far more sensible?
Even if there is no skulduggery involved it does not look good if connections lay their own horses. So no they should not be allowed.
Value Is Everythingginge, owners are not allowed to lay their own horses, it’s against the rules, someone else will have a link for that probably
skint, what do you do when peter grayson has 8 of the 9 runners ?
venus, yes it is
‘skulduggery’ has always gone on and always will go on in anything where money can be gambled, made and lost. it is quite often obvious or suspicious but as the recent trials have shown it’s not always easy to prove and most of the time you’ll only be more confident than not it did go on
which means we don’t have to like it but we do have to lump it, i file it away as one of the uncontrollable variables and plug on, i enjoy it too much
More to the point, it’s also against the rules for an owner to lay any other horse from the same stable.
So the ‘registered’ owner of the winner in this case should not have been laying the favourite, and if they had, I would expect BF to have reported that to the authorities.
AP
This thread is an excellent advertisement for a tote monopoly.
I don’t want to derail this thread but I do think that the Tote should have an on course monopoly these days. Maybe a discussion for a new thread?
Thanks for all the replies.
I can see a grand opening here!
As a "friend" of an owner, trainer, jockey, stable worker, horsebox driver, and farrier, I am perfectly entitled to lay a horse on the Exchanges.
My overheads are considerably reduced. No need for me to pay, like Zoso, for the opinions of influential tipping lines; no need either for me to wait for those category A punters mentioned by Ginger to ring the bookmakers and alert the price-changers.
Also, no need to back the winner, with all the risk and essential effort that that involves.
What a gold mine!
Let there be no excitement: I’ve never laid a horse in my life and I don’t intend starting now at this late hour.
On a more worrying topic, touched on by Tuffers: I would be very concerned if the Tote gets sold off to Corals. That would be an out and out disaster for racing in my opinion. I sincerely hope that it never happens!
I still can’t get over Seamie Heffernan virtually pulling Magne Cum Laude up to let Achill Island through at Tipperary last summer – the Stewards never even called an enquiry. It’s happening all over.
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