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Scarborough Stakes [8f]
As a matter of interest – or probably not – the race is actually spelt Scarbrough, after the Earls of Scarbrough, not the town. They along with the Dukes of Portland (Portland Handicap) owned, and probably still do own, large swathes of North Nottinghamshire and South Yorkshire
The Scarbrough Stakes is also one of only 3 British races open to 2yo-and-up, along with the Nunthorpe and one at Redcar, I think
There’s also a Scarbrough Hotel near the railway station in Leeds, though that is named after one Henry Scarbrough who was unrelated to the Earls
Fascinating stuff, I hope you agree
…oh I do
just hope it’s not pronounced Scar-bruff – I can’t cope with that one…Henry Scar-bruff…. Bruff Scott…? you know?
Finally – UM i am actually on the Algarve but i did once holiday in Clacton as a 10 year old. I lost all my pocket money on day 1 on the pier on the horse racing machine. A sad sign of what was to come and the most miserable week of my life!
…lol ! poor ‘bake…
then I will tell you that at the same age, thereabouts, I backed a horse called Fraxinus in the, then known as, News of the World Handicap at the Goodwood meeting – 10f 3 yo hcap, can’t remember what it’s called now.
It won at 25-1, beat favourite Mandamus a neck after Peter O’Sullevan wrote in Daily Express that it had no chance. I disagreed. 2s 6d each way. So you see Joni – I have form.well I hope you are enjoying the Algarve – I believe it has nice weather
EF is was you who described the hype given to the Marois by the Racing press as unjustified. I’m mearly pointing out that in relation to the KG on paper (OR if you will)it was ever bit as good a race as the KG.
The Marois may not have had the highest rated miler, but the winner had a higher OR going into the race than anything in the KG, whats more according to you he did what Danedream did i.e. win when running below his best.
Going into the King George Danedream was still rated 128 from her Arc win last season. That put her 5lb superior to Excelebration, granted similar conditions I think she is capable of producing better.
Excelebration is a decent miler but he is in the Ramonti class rather than being a superstar...hypothetical…
If Frankel had run in the race, along with all the others – no defectors – to run to his TF rating of 147 how far would he have had to win by, and what time would he have had to record for the race to achieve that…?
bearing in mind, TF have Excelebration on 133 and Moonlight Cloud on 126.
Time for race was 1.34.6 – Goldikova’s 40 year race record 1.33.5 on similar ground….
6 lengths per second – 2 lbs per length….?
Frankel has yet to better a race record…Whatever the race record, Frankel would’ve stuffed Goldikova anytime, anyplace, anyhow.
..hypothetical…
If Frankel had run in the race, along with all the others – no defectors – to run to his TF rating of 147 how far would he have had to win by, and what time would he have had to record for the race to achieve that…?
bearing in mind, TF have Excelebration on 133 and Moonlight Cloud on 126.
Time for race was 1.34.6 – Goldikova’s 40 year race record 1.33.5 on similar ground….
6 lengths per second – 2 lbs per length….?
Frankel has yet to better a race record…If both Frankel and Excelebration ran to form at a mile UM, I’d say (if both horses are "all out" to gain that distance) Frankel should beat Excelebration around 6 3/4 lengths.
Of course you need to add 3 lbs for the sex allowance for Moonlight Cloud. So she should be given 129. So probably beaten around 8 3/4 lengths.
Value Is EverythingGoing into the King George Danedream was still rated 128 from her Arc win last season. That put her 5lb superior to Excelebration, granted similar conditions I think she is capable of producing better.
Excelebration is a decent miler but he is in the Ramonti class rather than being a superstar.Apologies EF. It appears I was looking at the RP ratings not the Official Ratings. I’m sure you get my drift about the quality of the Marois with 9 individual G1 winners was up there with the King George.
Surely the one form line we dont need to be "hypothetical" about is Frankel and Excelebration? 5 meetings averaging about 6 lengths. That would get him pretty close no?
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Frankel TV Commercial:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIK5TyaPv4Y
Could have been better, in my opinion.
If both Frankel and Excelebration ran to form at a mile UM, I’d say (if both horses are "all out" to gain that distance) Frankel should beat Excelebration around 6 3/4 lengths.
Of course you need to add 3 lbs for the sex allowance for Moonlight Cloud. So she should be given 129. So probably beaten around 8 3/4 lengths.
…Excelebration ran to a TF rating of 130 in this race, so if Frankel was in it and ran his race, in this imagined scenario, he would have won by about 8 and a half lengths to merit 147.
That distance equates to a reduction in race time of almost 1.5 secs, reducing the official 1.34.6 to better the race record by nearly half a second.
It’s possible, perhaps probable, but I retain a doubt that he would have achieved it, [he’s yet to do so], which is why I question his 147 rating they’ve given him, and more importantly I think, by association, 133 to the other one….…nit picking I know,
Firm ground is needed to break record times and Frankel has never run on Firm ground.
Value Is EverythingNot wishing to sound defensive UM but there is no need to doubt it. He did after all beat Excel 11 lengths last time. Every chance he would have won by 8 lengths.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Going into the King George Danedream was still rated 128 from her Arc win last season. That put her 5lb superior to Excelebration, granted similar conditions I think she is capable of producing better.
Excelebration is a decent miler but he is in the Ramonti class rather than being a superstar.Apologies EF. It appears I was looking at the RP ratings not the Official Ratings. I’m sure you get my drift about the quality of the Marois with 9 individual G1 winners was up there with the King George.
No probs, the Marois was a very good field, but because of the absence of Frankel it was not as good as it could possibly been. Unfortunately human intervention stops horses proving themselves.
Firm ground is needed to break record times and Frankel has never run on Firm ground.
Not always, Danedream set a race record time in last year’s Arc on good going.
I am not convinced Frankel would let himself down on firm going. I do not think he fully stretched at Goodwood and his slightly wayward course when he quickened was fair warning for those blinkered enough to take 1/7 about a horse running over a new distance and new going.
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