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This is how the Sporting Life website is billing the Prix Jaques Le Marois on Sunday and it does indeed look a very good race.
HOWEVER
What would they be calling it if Frankel was involved?
I don’t know how many times this year I have read people on this forum saying that the mile division lacks depth and that Frankel has beaten little. I dare say that if he WAS running those same people would be calling it a poor renewal even though there are 8 Group 1 runners taking part.
All the horses running on Sunday could have run in the Sussex but didn’t. Only two of the declared runners are actually French. Asked why he is running two in the race John Gosden replied “because Frankel isn’t running.”
It’s interesting to me how Frankel’s absence changes the perspective of a race.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
It doesn’t look as good as the King George did beforehand and is unlikely to deliver as much as that race did. If they had said the best mile contest of the season then they may have had a point, but only by virtue of the fact that it looks immensely competitive. The fact that the best horse at the distance is not partaking means that it is something of a false claim. Unfortunately the trade paper is given to unjustifiable hyperbole and its views owe themselves to the infiltration of tabloid journalism.
Frankel’s undoubtedly a victim of his own success.
Some people are a bit bored of Frankel turning top class races in to a glorious procession. I am not one of those people.
The French race looks a cracker – but its only really a "silver medal" play-off. I hope Excellebration wins handsomely to shut some people up.
Why was Frankel not entered ? All Henry has to do is enter Frankel and leave it to Gosden to take over when everyone else withdraws.Just like the Juddmonte.Do trainers not talk to each other?
I don’t think that trainers are too keen to share their strategies with each other. Every team for themselves springs to my mind. However, it crossed my mind that perhaps there might be a touch of contained petty jealousy somewhere.
The race itself might be a blessing in disguise for the absent Frankel, the connections and his fans because, should Excelebration win (hopefully in good style), then it can only add extra sparkle to Frankel’s superiority. Whatever the outcome, the winner will still be living in Frankel’s shadow.
Peruvian Chief hit the nail on the head when he stated that Frankel is a victim of his own success. Sometimes I wonder that if Frankel would’ve been trained in another country, he’d probably get elevated to celebrity status and properly appreciated as a champion. England always seems to prefer the underdog
When our beautiful champion finally retires, it’ll leave a big gaping hole in Flat racing and the reality will set in to all those doubters …
they don’t know a great thing until it’s gone
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will Excelebrations brilliant win finally silence the last few Frankel doubters? I doubt it – but it should!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
It appears that "proving nothing by beating up Excellebration over a mile again" could well be the toughest test out there.
No more posting Jonibake.Vacation is vacation.Get away from it all for a week and enjoy the roses.And don’t even think of Sir Henry.
It doesn’t look as good as the King George did beforehand and is unlikely to deliver as much as that race did. If they had said the best mile contest of the season then they may have had a point, but only by virtue of the fact that it looks immensely competitive. The fact that the best horse at the distance is not partaking means that it is something of a false claim. Unfortunately the trade paper is given to unjustifiable hyperbole and its views owe themselves to the infiltration of tabloid journalism.
Thr OR rating for the 1st 6 home in KG 123, and the Jacques le Marois 122.5, and Excelebration has a higher OR rating than Danedream or Nathaniel. On paper I’d say that the Marois was every bit as good a race as the KG.
If Frankel had run in the Marois the average of 1st 6 home(assuming Frankel could manage that
) becomes 126.3, therefore it can be argued the mile division is stronger than the middle distance division.Theoretically you could say that Frankel has passed the sternest test there is for him, five times. The only question left is will he stay the extra 2 and bit furlongs, if he does there is nothing than give a test never mind beat him.
will Excelebrations brilliant win finally silence the last few Frankel doubters? I doubt it – but it should!
Whilst I am sure there may be examples you can point to, my overall impression on this forum is that nobody actually "doubts" Frankel in the way you constantly seem imply. People can quibble a few pounds here and there, and some people have difficulty accepting he is better than Sea-Bird II.
The debate centres on whether he needs to contest the old established middle distance races (and win them) in order to truly establish himself in the pantheon of all time greats.
Whilst I am sure you have been a fan of the horse since his early two year old days, it is worth remembering that Tony Elves was shouting his name from the roof tops several weeks before he ever set foot on a racecourse, and made no secret in his RP column of the regard in which the horse was held.
Many people need to see a horse prove himself at the highest level before they get carried away with the hype and I was firmly in that camp until his stroll in the Dewhurst – if memory serves I wrote a long post on here before the Dewhurst tempering enthusiasm.
There is a clear division in opinion both on here and in the wider racing media as to which path Frankel’s career should have taken. That is not to say that anyone is doubting Frankel’s incredible ability, although you constantly seek to imply this.
Excelebration has won well in the end, although he was 11/5f and the highest rated horse in the field so he has done precisely what we expected him to do. In fact he would have had to have been beaten by more than the 11 lengths Frankel destroyed him by at Royal Ascot for anyone to have even thought about "doubting" Frankel as the real deal. And if that had happened I am sure there would have been a very strong likelihood that the horse was not 100% so invalidating the form.
I am not quite sure why you are so defensive about the horse, to the extent that you seem to be reading things into people’s posts that are not there. He is the highest rated horse in the history of Timeform, fact. Why be so defensive?
It doesn’t look as good as the King George did beforehand and is unlikely to deliver as much as that race did. If they had said the best mile contest of the season then they may have had a point, but only by virtue of the fact that it looks immensely competitive. The fact that the best horse at the distance is not partaking means that it is something of a false claim. Unfortunately the trade paper is given to unjustifiable hyperbole and its views owe themselves to the infiltration of tabloid journalism.
Thr OR rating for the 1st 6 home in KG 123, and the Jacques le Marois 122.5, and Excelebration has a higher OR rating than Danedream or Nathaniel. On paper I’d say that the Marois was every bit as good a race as the KG.
If Frankel had run in the Marois the average of 1st 6 home(assuming Frankel could manage that
) becomes 126.3, therefore it can be argued the mile division is stronger than the middle distance division.Theoretically you could say that Frankel has passed the sternest test there is for him, five times. The only question left is will he stay the extra 2 and bit furlongs, if he does there is nothing than give a test never mind beat him.
Danedream is rated at 123 for her win in the King George but you have to add the 3lb allowance to get her true rating ie 126. This is 5lbs below her Arc victory. Yesterday Excelebration did not run to his best in winning, at most 124 but more likely 122 or 123.
Oh come on Ivanjica. We all know there have been two camps on this one and you are right i could find numerous examples of members of this forum who have doubted HOW good he is based on WHAT he has beaten.
Obviously you would have to be a simpleton not to see that he is a good horse but many have questioned not only his campaign but his form also. "Beating up the same horse" "Excelebration is only a Group 2 animal" "Canford Cliffs was injured anyway" – these are all recent quotes so you are damned right that i am protective of the horse and pleased to be able to say "told you so". I dont claim to be particularly clever for singing the horse to the rafters nor have i ever claimed i was the first to spot him but i could see early on that he was special. That was never rocket science but people did doubt and i did debate on a debating forum and it is nice to be proved right.
I dont expect you or anyone to put their hands up and say i was wrong but am disappointed that your post turns the whole thing round on me.
I have written many many posts in the last couple of years and am happy to admit to being obsessed and i have probably bored people half to death going on about him! However the huge majority of my posts have been positive and upbeat and often i am responding to others saying "hang on a minute he is not as good as you say". Fair for them to say that – everyone is entitled to an opinion – but this horse just proves himself time and time again and i struggle to understand when people cant see it as it seems to me obvious. I make no apology for my enthusiasm and excitement for this horse as i have explained my lifelong affinity to the Cecil stable and how this has been one of the most important passages in my sporting life. As a racing fan, if you cannot enjoy and appreciate a horse like Frankel i am not sure how you can ever appreciate anything.
With respect i think the campaign debate is another argument entirely and i have myself questioned it many times in posts. I have been waiting like everyone else for him to step up in trip and think it is somewhat overdue.
I have never thought of myself as a negative poster so am disappointed that you see me thus. There has been a long and enjoyable debate about many aspects of this horse and i was delighted that Excelebration was able to settle one on Sunday.
I hope we can all enjoy the last chapters of this remarkable story.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Jonibake, beating the same horses time and time again is not exactly proving something "again and again".That is the same proof each time.Once is enouigh for that.How about beating new horses over different distances?That would indeed be new proof of greatness,again and again.Beat the Guineas horses,the Derby horses and the Arc horses. Just like StS’s.Maybe before the year is up!Amd by the way we would all like to be on your side but then there would be no discussion would there?.
Andyod,
Connections of other horses thought they had a chance of beating STS, so they took him on.
Nobody seems to believe they have a chance of beating Frankel, so they don’t take him on and go elsewhere. Connections read the form book.
Had Frankel ran in France at the weekend instead of Goodwood, none of the other principles would’ve turned up at Deaville and they’d all have appeared in Sussex.
People on here were saying (wrongly) Excelebration had beaten nothing, therefore Frankel had beaten nothing. Excelebration has now (again) beaten a top class field.
You keep watching races blindfolded.
Value Is EverythingI guess you mean Ballydoyle.The same people as train Ezcelebration.They took on STS and they took on Frankel and hopefully will take him on again.
) becomes 126.3, therefore it can be argued the mile division is stronger than the middle distance division.
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