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Good post Cork, this thread continues to provide far better comment than that in the sycophantic media.
Charles, and later William, simply cannot play the ‘neutral observer’ role that Elizabeth did. She was basically beyond criticism, they are not and when the dust settles, debate will become ever more widespread.
Be good to see some comments on alternatives.
Should the Monarchy be abolished with nothing in its place?
Should the elected Commons takeover all constitutional powers?
Should a presidency take up the role of an abolished monarch?
Would an elected presidency have more powers than an elected House of Commons and PM?Thoughts?
I would favour abolition with nothing in its place, with all Royal assets being deployed to bolster the economy as previously discussed.
We don’t need a “President” – overtly complex political systems very quickly stop protecting democracy, start making it difficult to get anything done and are open to abuse anyway – look at examples in other countries.
I doubt we will see a republic in my lifetime – I’m 59 – but I’d say William’s offspring are odds-against to ever sit on the throne….because the republican removal men will have taken it away by then!
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Thanks for the kind comments.
I should have added I posted it more in sadness than approval. I have no problem with republicanism and respect people’s opinion on the issue but I do think constitutional monarchy is quite a good system of government. I just think the British monarchy has lost its prime asset to be replaced by someone nowhere near as good, although to be fair he has been dignified during the last week and gave a good speech.
The issue the British monarchy has is it is not like the monarchies of the Low Countries or Scandinavia. Their monarchs have a civil inauguration ceremony rather like an American President.
Britain is unique in that it has kept a Coronation ceremony. A lot of people do not fully grasp what this means. It is a religious, specifically Protestant ceremony, in which the new monarch is anointed with holy oil and deemed to be divinely chosen to rule. This part of the ceremony is so holy, it was the only part of Elizabeth II’s coronation that was not filmed.
It is this nature of the monarchy which makes it look anachronistic in the modern, secular age. Britain in 1953 was still broadly Christian and Protestant. It is not now, with many people who are not part of the Christian faith or any religion at all.
On one level, I do like the continuity the monarchy represents. I am not convinced a republic or starting again from some sort of historical or cultural year zero would be an improvement. But the specific nature of Britain’s monarchy, especially now it has lost its universally respected and dignified representative who performed her role in an exemplary manner, will inevitably change. It is only natural that a lot of people will start asking serious questions about its future once a respectable period of time has elapsed.
Key takeouts from The Queue research by Prof Rob Johns, a specialist in political psychology at Essex Uni.
He interviewed every 9th person at selected points in The Queue, so not necessarily representative of UK pop, but rep of The Queue.They want to show gratitude rather than grief.
The mourners are far from nationalistic and are surprisingly rep of Britain in age, ethnicity and gender.
Most are EU remainers with liberal views towards Anti-Royal protesters.Prof Rob said
“It doesnt conform to the narrative that these are very Conservative, nationalistic people. Not at all”Thanks for that. It pretty much voiced my opinion in a much more coherent way than I could. I didn’t know about the anointing bit. Having said that, although I’m not religious I do think the Church of England is all about the sort of values we should all adhere to and I do try to do that. Religious or not I think most of us search for some kind of spirituality, especially when bad things happen. Nothing showed up Johnson’s lying more than the way he lied to the Queen when he tried to illegally prorogue parliament. Not that it finished him off ( it should have done) but at least he will go down in history for it. ( this was in reply to Cork All Star by the way….)
The Labour Party will break with tradition at start of its party conference next week and play the National Anthem.
SKS will open the event in Liverpool with a tribute to the Queen.Old Kier might be about as funny as a blood clot and the last person you’d want to be stuck in a lift with, but he’s going to ride every popular bandwagon going in his bid to emulate Tony Blair’s “New Labour” in 1997.
The hatred he endures from the Left of his Party is a key barometer – the more they loathe and despise him, the more likely he is to be the next PM.
He’s lost the lying upper class Twit of the year at PMQs, but he’s gained the woman who has done the impossible and demonstrated she’s more right wing than Margaret Thatcher.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"“Most are EU remainers with liberal views towards Anti-Royal protesters.”
Professor Johns’s findings have been interesting to read. The only observation I would make about the quote is I expect the queue is overwhelmingly comprised of people from London and the South of England, which tended to favour Remain more than the North.
Some lighter observations:
It was my first visit to Westminster Hall yesterday. There have been lots of comments all week about it being an incredible building. Sometimes things do not live up to the hype but Westminster Hall does. It really is extraordinary.
Fortunately I went through at a fairly quiet time so I could take in the surroundings, including that incredible roof. It is a miracle it survived the bombs of WW2. A piece of the Middle Ages in Central London.
The other thing I noticed is just how still the guardsmen and beefeaters on the vigil were standing. The beefeater in front of me looked like a statue. I wondered if he was at first!
As for the people who queued for hours: I admire their stamina but I could never have done it, especially in the cold at night.
I read that some people put their wristbands up for sale on Ebay and were getting bids for thousands of pounds before Ebay put a stop to it. Some people really must have money to burn if they are prepared to spend thousands on a torn piece of paper!
Good for Keir. I was hounded out of the Labour Party by the far left and the people in my constituency group are still pretty much the same lot of people. If it wasn’t for him I doubt if I would have had the courage to rejoin. I think I’m far more conservative with a small c than I’d realised, although that’s probably an age thing.
One’s enthusiasm for sharing the modest stash one has accumulated over the years diminishes with the passage of time, Moehat.
I do a passable impression of a right-wing Tory in the way I conduct my life – 100% about me and mine and sod everyone else – between elections, but I still just about summon the social conscience to vote Labour once inside the polling booth come each General Election.
Got to give the great unwashed a passable free health service and some sort of education for their brats (sorry, children), don’t you know.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"The middle ground is the place to be , socialism is a pipe dream yet if u let the me me me of society dictate then you end up with anarchy on the streets as the withouts fight for there lives …I’ve said it before and I’ll say again a Blair like Labour party is the best idea for the UK , take away Iraq and Blair called most things right , Starmer ain’t daft and if he keeps on top of the reds in the party then he has a good chance at the next election
I agree – take away Iraq (a massive thing to ignore admittedly) and for me Blair’s the best PM by a country mile in my lifetime.
He wouldn’t have won three elections if he hadn’t been palatable to a significant number of moderate One Nation Tory voters.
Moderacy on all sides is the way forward – “Careful Now!” as Father Dougal used to say.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Surely after the last few years society will just want to back to normality …. With the Russians on the back foot hopefully 2023 will be a year to look forward to
“2023 will be a year to look forward to”
Every year is one to which we should look forward.
Experience has taught me that they all end in disappointment; perhaps my expectations are too high.
I cheerfully expect 2023 to be the nightmare from Hell.
War in Ukraine, cost of living crisis, and the country run by a woman so right wing she makes Margaret Thatcher look like a Marxist.
What can go wrong?
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"
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