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The most difficult flat handicap to win?

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Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 31 total)
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  • #153094
    Blackheath
    Member
    • Total Posts 105

    For me it would be the Cambridgeshire, but really it is an impossible question to answer.

    I am lucky enough to be involved in two horses running in these races – Pinpoint (rated 109 and winner of two Heritage Handicaps, 3rd Cambridgeshire) and now Something (104) 3rd Bunbury Cup and 4th Wokingham.

    The first reason that they keep out of Listed/Group company for as long as possible is, as Alan has said, the much better prize money of the big sponsored handicaps. The second reason is that as soon as they go into Listed/Group company and run close to a high class horse they fly up 10 lbs in the handicap (for no logical reason) and are stuck running in lower value Group, Listed and conditions races. There are also horses, such as Pinpoint, who go best in big field strong pace races and are not so suited to the average Group/Listed race.

    In terms of punting the Steward’s Cup is my favourite and most successful race. I swerve the difficult ones. :wink:

    #153100
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    Difficult to say this without sounding complacent, but I really do love these big handicaps, and they often aren’t nearly as difficult to sort as legend would have you believe.
    Look at the past results of races like the Lincoln and the Grand National, and the winner comes from the first 3 in the betting as often as not, and you’re nearly guaranteed a decent return. Even blind dutching the top 3 in the market in these races would probably yield a better return than many of the more sophisticated approaches,
    For all my years in betting, Kuala Lipis’s Lincoln win still remains as my most lucrative ever single bet, and carried a deal more confidence than I could muster for just about any stakes race.
    Bring them on.

    #153104
    carvillshill
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2778

    Totally agree. Have never found races like the National anyway daunting- most can be dismissed with confidence on form and race trends. The Hunt Cup is fairly punter-friendly these days too. You are far more likely to get an odd result in a small field conditions race than in a big field handicap.

    #153106
    Smithy
    Member
    • Total Posts 720

    Alan,

    Do you think the time has come for the feature handicaps to be done on a ratings basis, rather than actual weight carried? In recent years, it has become very difficult for a 3yo to get in to races like the Ebor, Golden Mile etc despite the fact that they could be rated much higher than many of their elders who get in. It struck me last year that you needed a 3yo verging on Listed class just to get into these races, while there are a number of poorly handicapped older horses getting a run.

    I appreciate there is a full programme of 3yo handicaps already in place, but it still seems an unsatisfactory state of affairs.

    Paul

    #153119
    seabird
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2924

    Reet and Carvill’s, I wouldn’t call either of your posts above complacent………..a touch smug mebbe!! :wink: :D

    Colin

    #153130
    apracing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3235

    Paul,

    Well as the owner of older horses, I’d be happy to let 3-y-olds into races on the basis of ratings as long as they didn’t expect a weight for age allowance as well!

    But in principle, I agree that it’s daft, for example, that a 100 rated 3-y-old is eliminated form the Ebor in favour of a 92 rated 4-y-old. The separate program for 3-y-olds is hardly compensation when the Melrose is worth so much less than the Ebor. Perhaps the Melrose money and slot in the program could go to an Ebor consolation race?

    AP

    #153141
    Smithy
    Member
    • Total Posts 720

    Alan,

    Totally agree that the owners of older horses would be aggrieved, but it never seemed to happen as much in the past (for whatever reason). The consolation race idea seems a sound one in theory and, as such, will probably never see the light of day in the murky depths of BHA Towers.

    #158752
    parlo
    Member
    • Total Posts 196

    Perhaps a silly question from a racing-fan from outside GB:

    What is the difference between a listed handicap and a Heritage Handicap?

    As much as I know, Heritage Handicaps have some tradition and the horses running have ratings close to listed or G3-status. For example, in the recent Ebor Handicap a horse from GER was running (El Tango) and did quite well with a 5th place. El Tango, a multiple listed-race-winner, was rated in his home-country at around 106 – 111 lbs.

    #158777
    Getzippy
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1152

    The Ebor was the 1st one to spring to mind. Are sprints with badly drawn runners more difficult? Hmmmm…

    I just think the Ebor is a very rich prize at a distance all of its own.

    How many top class 1m 6f’s are there?

    Let alone just handicaps.

    Old Newton Cup.

    St Simons Sakes? (or whatever it is called now)

    Irish St leger.

    Zip

    #158791
    Euro
    Member
    • Total Posts 404

    For me it would be the Cambridgeshire, but really it is an impossible question to answer.

    One of the easiest imo. Risen Moon, Mellottie, Cap Jaluca, Pasternak, Beauchamp Pilot and Pipedreamer al stood out like a sore thumb for me 8)

    I never get involved in the Lincoln so i`ll say the Ebor as well. Horrible race for me.

    #158828
    Neil Watson
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1376

    My friends – it could only be the Melbourne Cup! :)

    To win the Aussie Cesarewitch all you need is a Group 2 or 3 horse between 1m2f and 1m4f for that race.

    I think the Tote Silver Bowl at Haydock can be tricky and any 0-65 handicap at Southwell

    #158844
    MDeering
    Member
    • Total Posts 1688

    Can you tell this to the idiots who keep pumping prizemoney into the race Mr. Watson? It is ridiculous.

    #158907
    Neil Watson
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1376

    It is odd how our trainers of Group stayers on the flat seem to think that because you win the Ascot Gold Cup you can win the Melbourne Cup.

    The Melbourne is tough because if it is true all the runners run over 6f to 1m4f in the season due to the being a lack of 2m races in Australia anyway.

    Regarding the prize money well over 70% of our races are all bookmaker sponsored apart from the Pontins sponsore AW at the 3 Arena courses.

    #158995
    MDeering
    Member
    • Total Posts 1688

    It is why Yeats was pummelled in 2006. They ran a genuine … 2400m and Yeats was left flat footed immediately on the top of the straight.

    It is also why I cannot rate Makybe Diva anywhere near Phar Lap, or even Tulloch, Kingston Town or Carbine.

    #159000
    seabird
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2924

    Talking of Kingston Town……..where’s she gone?

    Colin

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