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Gord i was sad CAMELOT did not win today i did not bet on him had my big AP winner on him at 25/1 in the derby which was a race i always thought he win.
Where you think he go next race in arc or be put away for a 4o carear.
Camelot does not seem to appear in any lists for the Arc. He was a best price of 3/1 the last time I looked before today. I don’t think we will see him again this season.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
A wonderful post by Shabby earlier in the thread. Great stuff.
As for the Leger (I’ll keep it very brief), Encke runs like a little terrier, doesn’t he? What a tough and genuine colt. I don’t think Camelot was good enough on the day (see my post in a related thread), but Michelangelo is a colt I’m very much looking forward to next season. Ursa Major may need further and is going the right way, but Main Sequence didn’t stay and is possibly in danger of becoming another Youmzain. Buick gave Thought Worthy every chance, but I think he needs a little bit of juice in the ground and a stronger pace – generally travels well in his races.
Good night
O’Brien Snr, typically, blamed himself rather than his teenaged son. "I thought, with a pacemaker in there, that the gallop would have been strong, but I should not have taken that for granted," he said.
I though according to OBrien senior that his horse could walk on water.Apparently he never thought that Mr.Gosden would plan what was best for his horse and not for Joseph!"Camelot was moving easily, but was behind rivals on the rails; Encke, ridden by Mickael Barzalona, came alongside him in the clear and already in full sail".(from The Independent)There is the difference between the jockeys.
Again "Down the straight he had to take his time and wait for the gaps to come. When they did, the winner was in just that handier position and was gone".In effect the decisions were out of Joseph’s hands.A good jockey never lets someone else be making the decisions.
"My regret is not running a pacemaker or two myself. A strong pace would have made it more straightforward because he would have settled a bit earlier. And it is easier to quicken off a fast pace."Does he really think that the St.Leger would be run at a fast pace?Of course if it is "straightforward" Joseph will not be challenged to display the skills required to win the St.Leger.Hard to see Michael,Kieren or Johnny riding to that level in a classic.
Sad day for John,Michael and Derrick.Somebody better take charge before we have too many more of those days.Andy I’ve got to be straight with you mate.
You are moaning like an old sweetie wife
All you are doing is telling us that Joesph O’Brien is useless but you aren’t telling us what he did wrong.
You say a good jockey never lets someone else be making the decisions.
Let me tell you something mate jockeys that don’t follow initial instructions a re soon looking for a new job. Sure the can adapt if the opportunity arises but pray tell was that the case here?
No jockey on the planet would have done anything different than Joseph did up until turning for home because the instructions were to switch him off and not be in a hurray. He did exactly that
So you tell us what, lets say Ryan Moore, would have done differently once the race began in earnest in the home straight because I’m stuffed if I can see what else could be done other than barge his way through and fall foul of the stewards.
Superman,I don’t agree that that result is good for horse racing.A very bad result for the St.Leger.Who will have a go again if they win the other classics like Sea the Stars did?
I think it’s good for racing that we don’t have to listen to fairytale stories from the truth economist or the boys about this horse. From now on they should let the horses stick to a more appropriate path and stop giving them superlative compliments whhilst saying things such as ‘we’ve had this name in mind for ten years but have waited to give it to a special horse’. As Stilvi has stated above and i also said the same thing just the other day, this was about opportunity as much as anything. The thought they could have this horse mentioned in the same breath as Nijinsky because he beat what exactly ? he didn’t go for the King George and he will probably avoid the Arc. This horse isn’t a abracadabra equiune wizard. He’s a 3y/o in amongst a bunch of 3 y/o who wouldn’t get near any good 4 y/o over any distance.
What superstars did Nijinsky beat in his Triple Crown races?
No worries let me help/
Etienne Pollet who trained Sea Bird II was planing to retire at the end of the season until Gyr started winning everything in France. Because he believed he was so good he decided to continue training for one more year and Gyr didn’t let him down winning his trials on the lead up to the Derby with ease.
He was joined on the big day by a top class colt called Stintino but Nijinsky made complete mincemeat of them both.
Compared to what Camelot beat these were real stars. In Fact had Nijinsky not existed Gyr would have been hailed a superstar in his own right and I’m damn sure you couldn’t be saying that about anything Camelot beat.
He also beat the previous years Derby winner Blakeny and the brilliant Karabas in the King George before winning the St leger.
There excuses for him in the Arc that seem genuine including Lester saying he messed up.
There;s one thing I am certain of and that’s if Jospeh O’Brien had been on Nijinsky yesterday and ridden exactly the same way the horse would have responded in an instant and he’d have won on the steel.
Hurdy Gurdy man Aidan himself is telling you what he,Joseph did wrong.That is why I quoted him.Listen to Aidan,not me for goodness sake.
Well Camelot didn’t win…and he won’t be regarded as a great horse. Unless he goes on to win an Arc at 3 or 4.
If he had won he would have been so regarded…thats why they have a winning post right at the end.
He wasn’t good enough to overcome the race conditions and another was better, fair enough. This Triple Crown business is no pushover.One interesting point that struck me was the debate about Joseph O’Brien going up the inner, it was particularly pointed as today is the running of the Prix Foy.
Lasts years Prix Foy saw the subsequent Arc favourite Sarafina take on 3 rivals. She seemed to travel well but came into Longchamp’s straight last in the field about 4 lengths behind the leader. She could have gone outside but instead Christophe Lemaire brought her between St Nicholas Abbey and Hiruno D’Amour. She slithered through a tiny gap and looked to beat Hiruno D’Amour cheekily by short neck. The ride got almost universal praise and she went on to start favourite for the Arc.
Interestingly, one jockey, I think it was Soumillon (who rode SNA), disagreed. Immediately after the Foy he commented that it was telling that she went inside and between horses when the natural move was to the outer. He remarked that jockeys go inside or down to the rail because they know they have very little left and he quickly dismissed her chances for the Arc.
She finished 7th three weeks later, though the 2011 has subsequently proved to be very deep.Anyway the point is that horses naturally go to the rail when tired and possessing less than expected and jockeys are aware and often sense and facilitate this.
On O’Brien’s talent as a jockey, I would say he is a good bit more talented than most but makes the kind and number of mistakes you will see in a young pilot.
Also, related to this for those (and there are many) who have been very critical of the ride O’Brien gave St Nicholas Abbey in the King George, last years Prix Foy offers a different perspective.
What we found out is Camelot is no Nijinsky who like Camelot did get the trip ok and won it cosily with Piggott never having to get serious with him as he unlike Camelot yesterday had the speed to do that. Not a great ride by JO’B but ultimately the horse probably just wasn’t good enough on the day to cope with one that improved by some margin.
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