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St Leger 2012

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Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 128 total)
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  • #19227
    ZarkavaZarkava
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4708

    El Greco on the snaff. That is all.

    #21703
    cormack15cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 8783

    If Camelot were to win the Derby, and I think he might struggle to <!– s:shock: –>:shock:<!– s:shock: –> , should or, indeed, would they go for the Leger and the Triple Crown.

    One of my (out of my own control) ambitions is to witness a horse win the triple crown at Doncaster so I’d love it if they did.

    Would sentimentality rule over hard cash?

    #403157
    AdmiralofthefleetAdmiralofthefleet
    Member
    • Total Posts 451

    I would love to see this too, but let’s hold our horses (pun intended with apologies), and see if he wins the Derby! In theory he has the stamina for 1m6 and Montjeu has sired winners of the St Leger before. Only doubt would be the predominantly commercial enterprise backing the horse. He could in theory make a fantastic replacement for his sire and I think the Arc is worth more to them. I would be highly doubtful that they would go for the romantic option, especially considering they lost one of their top stallions and quite a money spinner.

    #403158
    Miss WoodfordMiss Woodford
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1352

    It’s kind of ridiculous that no Guineas or Derby winner even TRIES the St. Leger anymore. It’s not like there are some world-class 3yo stayers who will magically materialize. Camelot is certainly bred to go the distance. Montjeu has sired two St. Leger winners.

    #403159
    Miss WoodfordMiss Woodford
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1352

    I would love to see this too, but let’s hold our horses (pun intended with apologies), and see if he wins the Derby! In theory he has the stamina for 1m6 and Montjeu has sired winners of the St Leger before. Only doubt would be the predominantly commercial enterprise backing the horse. He could in theory make a fantastic replacement for his sire and I think the Arc is worth more to them. I would be highly doubtful that they would go for the romantic option, especially considering they lost one of their top stallions and quite a money spinner.

    I think a Triple Crown winner would be worth more at stud than the yearly ~greatest horse ever~. Camelot also has a Generic European Pedigree- Sadler’s Wells, Kingmambo, Danehill – and he doesn’t have a particularly awesome female family like Sea The Stars.

    #403162
    The Vintner
    Member
    • Total Posts 110

    Why would you give a stallion prospect the kiss of death by winning the Leger? You can run in the Irish Champion Stakes the same weekend or weekend before over 10f and beat older horses. You also potentially compromise a run in the Arc if the Leger is too close to the Arc.
    If anything you’d want to come back to a mile, now that’s a sexy stallion.

    Leger winner = NH sire for €4k.
    8-10f multiple G1 winner = flat sire €20-50k
    8-12f multiple G1 winner = flat sire €50k+

    #403163
    Miss WoodfordMiss Woodford
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1352

    Why would you give a stallion prospect the kiss of death by winning the Leger? You can run in the Irish Champion Stakes the same weekend or weekend before over 10f and beat older horses. You also potentially compromise a run in the Arc if the Leger is too close to the Arc.
    If anything you’d want to come back to a mile, now that’s a sexy stallion.

    Leger winner = NH sire for €4k.
    8-10f multiple G1 winner = flat sire €20-50k
    8-12f multiple G1 winner = flat sire €50k+

    How is winning the St. Leger the kiss of death if the horse has also won the Racing Post Trophy, 2000 Guineas, and Derby? And presumably another race at 8-12f in the summer?
    And believe it or not it is possible for Camelot to come back as a 4yo and take some more G1s at 8-12f. The Arc is open to older horses.

    #403167
    sberrysberry
    Member
    • Total Posts 1801

    I think you can ignore what has happened before with horses being retired early and unbeaten records protected, this time it is the trainers son on board so he will be given every chance to make history or build his status as a jockey before being readied to take over at Ballydoyle in about 15 years time and put his own son up on the best horses. Camelot may have a very busy season indeed, the owners wil do as the trainer suggests.

    #403170
    threenapsthreenaps
    Participant
    • Total Posts 303

    Yes I think he is good enough to win it.

    #403174
    Crepello1957Crepello1957
    Participant
    • Total Posts 710

    His pedigree indicates he will get a mile & six so what should be the problem? Quite a number of the Epsom Derby winners of the last twenty years would have stayed the St Leger distance as well so it’s just the commercial people in denial they have a horse that stays. If a horse can win a 2000 guineas like he did it’s hardly a plodder is it?
    It would be great if he could follow a traditional season & do the Arc in 2013. Alleged was a close second in a St Leger & went on to win the Arc that season. Nijinsky was only just beaten in the Arc & he was recovering from ringworm.
    Camelot has a good pedigree & his fourth dam was full sister to an Oaks winner.
    Go for it!

    #403185
    GodolphinArabianGodolphinArabian
    Member
    • Total Posts 275

    St Leger = National hunt Stallion for coolmore anyway

    so i would say 100% he will never run in a St Leger

    #403186
    Miss WoodfordMiss Woodford
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1352

    St Leger = National hunt Stallion for coolmore anyway

    so i would say 100% he will never run in a St Leger

    Or he can be sold for $$$ to Japan like Conduit.

    #403187
    Eclipse First
    Member
    • Total Posts 1572

    St Leger = National hunt Stallion for coolmore anyway

    so i would say 100% he will never run in a St Leger

    Not if it has won the Guineas. Anyway it is merely supposition as there is no guarantee he will stay 12f let alone the Leger trip.

    #403245
    ivanjicaivanjica
    Participant
    • Total Posts 817

    If Camelot were to win the Derby, and I think he might struggle to :shock: , should or, indeed, would they go for the Leger and the Triple Crown.

    One of my (out of my own control) ambitions is to witness a horse win the triple crown at Doncaster so I’d love it if they did.

    Would sentimentality rule over hard cash?

    YES!!!! And I share your ambition. I think Coolmore and Godolphin share a sense of history, unlike the Tsui’s and Oxx’s!

    #403257
    andyod
    Member
    • Total Posts 4012

    How about that,Tsui and Oxx don’t share a sense of history!Wow.Not enough to be an investor in racing or a brilliant trainer. One must now compete with the billionaires of racing and have a sense of history,whatever that is.Talk is cheap.Can you imagine how it would go down if Camelot has his only loss in the St.Leger. The abuse Aidan would get from the Forum.Horse lacked stamina etc, etc, etc.Conceited trainer abuses horse for son’s benefit….Lousy ride costs horse perfect record….NO thanks, no no nop.

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