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Sorry, thought I had posted on here, but in fact it was over at THE OTHER PLACE at 1.24:
Incidentally, Timeform revised its assessment earlier today, according to their communications head honcho Keiran Packman:
“Having had the opportunity to carry out and factor in the due time analysis, Harbinger’s current Timeform master rating will be 140.
“As with all Timeform ratings mid-season, this is a liquid figure and his rating in an historical context will not be agreed until the end of the season and subsequently published in the Racehorses annual.”
140 is the same as Sea The Stars’ rating in Racehorses of 2009.
I only pass this on. Don’t shoot the messenger.
If you work back on lengths per second, Cape Blanco ran about a 149.5. Yazrid winning the last over the same distance did a 152.2. Now lop off 2 seconds for the complete lack of pace for the 1st mile of the handicap as opposed to the big race which had a pacemaker who did a good job, and you have Cape Blanco running to within about 0.7 secs of a then rated 82 handicapper and thus well below form. Further reason to believe Harbinger’s 140
might
be generous.
Sorry but I just have become increasingly frustrated with your belittling of people on TRF of late TAPK and I doubt this is an isolated view. What I was trying to point out yesterday evening was just to air on the side of caution and how the track can throw up impressive times which may not relate to the horses ability, I respect everyone’s views and you can only rate the performance on the information given to you which you can’t start fiddling with things to suit a perspective you want to see, although saying that Ascot certinaly brings out the best in a horse
I get frustrated with people who rate Macarthur higher than The Duke of Marmalade,when The Duke absolutely stuffed Macarthur in the 08 King George! You air on the side of caution all you like,i rated Harbinger 135 and guess what so does the BHA and i maintain that he would have left Sea the Stars for dead,unfortunately that is the one black mark against Sea the Stars,he should have ran in the King George!
I know TAPK can be frustrating, his sarcasm and 100% belief in his thoughts can rub people (including me) up the wrong way. Don’t think he means to belittle anyone, though can see it might come over that way.
May be your thoughts can be expressed better in the TRF thread Mr Wilson.
You mean you want him to slag me off in more detail eh Ginge?
Harbinger would have sprinted past Sea the Stars yesterday
I never thought I’d say this TAPK….but (with respect) you are talking absolute sh*te this time
Sea The Stars was in a different league to Harbinger, always was and always will be…..and that’s from someone who only backed him once in his career.
Take Harbinger out of the King George and you have an impressive Irish Derby winner covering himself in Glory,in what would have been a very creditable time!Do you think Sea the Stars would have gone 11 lengths clear of Cape Blanco? Not a prayer, in fact Sea the Stars didn"t win all his 6 races last year by 11 lengths!! I never thought i"d here you saying i talk Sh*te Chelters!
- Total Posts 17716
Harbinger would have sprinted past Sea the Stars yesterday
I never thought I’d say this TAPK….but (with respect) you are talking absolute sh*te this time
Sea The Stars was in a different league to Harbinger, always was and always will be…..and that’s from someone who only backed him once in his career.
Take Harbinger out of the King George and you have an impressive Irish Derby winner covering himself in Glory,in what would have been a very creditable time!Do you think Sea the Stars would have gone 11 lengths clear of Cape Blanco? Not a prayer, in fact Sea the Stars didn"t win all his 6 races last year by 11 lengths!! I never thought i"d here you saying i talk Sh*te Chelters!
No wonder tapk is slagging the great sea the stars. He loves ballydoyle horses most notably rvw and f&g and they lost to the great one all last year.
Btw the horses this year are diabolical but i still firmly believe that sariska and fame and glory will both beat harbinger when they meet.
The reason people compare horses to sea the stars is cause he’s so good. No one saw harbingers performance and said "fame and who??????"
Harbinger would have sprinted past Sea the Stars yesterday
I never thought I’d say this TAPK….but (with respect) you are talking absolute sh*te this time
Sea The Stars was in a different league to Harbinger, always was and always will be…..and that’s from someone who only backed him once in his career.
Take Harbinger out of the King George and you have an impressive Irish Derby winner covering himself in Glory,in what would have been a very creditable time!Do you think Sea the Stars would have gone 11 lengths clear of Cape Blanco? Not a prayer, in fact Sea the Stars didn"t win all his 6 races last year by 11 lengths!! I never thought i"d here you saying i talk Sh*te Chelters!
I’m glad you’ve not taken offence at my stronger than necessary critisism, sorry if I came on a bit strong but your reckoning of The KG seemed to be made in the warm flush of a big win, more than by hard nosed logic
My argument is based on the fact that Sea The Stars only did just enough, he was never going to win by more than he needed to.
As you well know that while some great horses, more often than not, put a country parish between themselves and the runner up, (Arkle?/ Noblesse?) others will never do more than necessary, Zenyatta being the perfect example ( I was tempted to use my old pal Harchibald for purpose of argument ) and Seas The Stars falls into the latter categoryWhat I find more suprising is the value you put on this years 3-Y-Old form, Cape Blanco probably being the best of The UK/Irish contingent yet consistent as he has been, his form hardy makes him a World beater.
Maybe one might emerge from the pack but I can’t see it happening until next year at the earliest, that said I’d expect Harbinger will go on improving if he says in training next season. I’ve always thought a hig class flat horse raches his or her peak around 5 or 6 years of age
The best UK trained flat horse I’ve ever seen was much better at 5 & 6 than he was at 3 or even 4….that horse? Ardross of course!I know TAPK can be frustrating, his sarcasm and 100% belief in his thoughts can rub people (including me) up the wrong way. Don’t think he means to belittle anyone, though can see it might come over that way.
May be your thoughts can be expressed better in the TRF thread Mr Wilson.
You mean you want him to slag me off in more detail eh Ginge?
Now you are reading something that isn’t there, just meant that is the thread for any grievence. So this one doesn’t get pestered with stuff people don’t want to read.
You’re alright with me mate (smilie for thumbs up). Better say that, otherwise you’d pogo on me!
Value Is Everything- Total Posts 17716
Sorry but I just have become increasingly frustrated with your belittling of people on TRF of late TAPK and I doubt this is an isolated view. What I was trying to point out yesterday evening was just to air on the side of caution and how the track can throw up impressive times which may not relate to the horses ability, I respect everyone’s views and you can only rate the performance on the information given to you which you can’t start fiddling with things to suit a perspective you want to see, although saying that Ascot certainly brings out the best in a horse
I get frustrated with people who rate Macarthur higher than The Duke of Marmalade, when The Duke absolutely stuffed Macarthur in the 08 King George! You air on the side of caution all you like,i rated Harbinger 135 and guess what so does the BHA and i maintain that he would have left Sea the Stars for dead,unfortunately that is the one black mark against Sea the Stars,he should have ran in the King George!
See this is what really winds me up about you and I am busy this morning but have to justify myself yet again so this is my last post to you in this thread and I wont be put any more effort into talking to you on this forum again.
Right,
Macarthur Career
79 Navan
– –
93 Leopardstown
86 Leopardstown (SLOWLY RUN)
96 York
98 Doncaster
– –
76 Curragh
99 Chester
99 Epsom
99 Ascot
82 Ascot
– –
87 Nad Al Sheba
88 Nad Al Sheba
73 Nad Al Sheba
58 Ascot
– –
81 Newmarket
82 York
82 Ascot
83 NewcastleHe was a decent enough 3 year old with his best run for me coming in the St Ledger, he ran a 99 at Chester in 2008 and went on to be 3rd in the Coronation Cup at 12-1 franking that figure before winning the Hardwick again with the same rating, he was in scintillating form. The run in the King George was shocking; he beat Papal Bull at Epsom so why shouldn’t he have been giving Duke of Marmalade a run for his money along with Papal Bull? its a bit like Workforce this year, brought in Epsom form and bombed out with Cape Blanco running well. The horse went seriously downhill from there as you can see.
Duke of Marmalade Career
81 Leopardstown
86 Curragh
85 Goodwood
– –
100 Newmarket
98 Curragh
89 Ascot (SLOWLY RUN)
87 York (SLOWLY RUN)
96 Leopardstown
96 Ascot
– –
100 Longchamp
97 Curragh
96 Ascot
98 Ascot
99 Newmarket
97 Longchamp
– Santa AnitaThe Dukes 2 year old career resembles a frequent pattern although he come out of Goodwood badly so he may of improved into the 90’s with that run which is the profile you want to see but with a rating of 85 its questionable whether a horse will make the step up as a 3 year old. The run in both Guineas was fantastic and put any doubts away about his Group 1 ability, he set the pace in the St James Palace before running off a slow pace again in the Juddmonte were he was 4l of Dylan Thomas who he managed to get 1.5l closer to in a stronger run race in the Irish Champion before again acting as pacemaker again in the Queen Elizabeth on ground which didn’t suit.
The 4yo career is what we’ll all remember him for winning 5 Group 1s starting off in the Prix Ganay with a very smart time followed by the Tattersalls Gold Cup, Prince of Wales, King George and the Juddmonte returning to Newmarket where he recorded a decent time in his run in the 2000 Guineas and replicated that.
Duke of Marmalade is undoubtedly a much classier horse than Macarthur I do not doubt that only a fool would say any different! although he never excited me with his times during the 2008 season bar the Juddmonte and Prix Ganay, for me was found out against more classier opposition (Ravens Pass, Zarkava, Dylan Thomas, Ramonti, Cockney Rebel, Authorized etc) who frequently posted 100+ and rightly so because he never showed me that on the ratings he could break those sort of barriers so why should I believe he’s one of the all time greats.
But when you try to generalise everything I believe in by concluding that from a list of 12f races at Ascot from 2008-present that Macarthur ran a 99 at Ascot to Duke of Marmalades 98 it must make him a better horse you’re just being antagonistic and pathetic and I shouldn’t really rise to your bait.
Like I said, you don’t have to run fast times to be a good horse (Duke of Marmalade prime example) but it’s those who can interpret the times correctly that make the money and when you see a profile like Sea The Stars it just puts into context how great he was.
RANT OVER
Duke of Marmalade is undoubtedly a much classier horse than Macarthur I do not doubt that only a fool would say any different!
RANT OVER
That is as good as an apology to me Mr W! I respect the effort you put into your posts and so long as your ratings are making you money,you dont need to listen to me! As i have said many times before,its all about winning money and to a £1 level stake i bet you any money you like i put up more winners than anyone on here! All at no expense to anyone other than me! I might change my name to something like "Peter NORTON" racing!
Keep up the good work and dont be such a Mardy Ba*tard! The best UK trained flat horse I’ve ever seen was much better at 5 & 6 than he was at 3 or even 4….that horse? Ardross of course!
And what a horse he was!!!! (bow bow!!)
Should have been an Arc winner!!!! for a stayer superb!!!!
i bet you any money you like i put up more winners than anyone on here!
I know I’ve not been on TRF nearly as long as you have but since I joined I reckon I’m giving you a good run for your money re number of winners, good prices too
Agreed thought we are both making money, and can help each other from time to time that’s all that counts in the end!
i bet you any money you like i put up more winners than anyone on here!
I know I’ve not been on TRF nearly as long as you have but since I joined I reckon I’m giving you a good run for your money re number of winners, good prices too
Agreed thought we are both making money, and can help each other from time to time that’s all that counts in the end!
Remember Chelters when you have a name like ours you have to be able to live up to it! I beleive you are more than capable of running me close but then the King goes and shocks the world with his
Harbinger
post! Who else has the foresight of me eh?
Remember Chelters when you have a name like ours you have to be able to live up to it! I beleive you are more than capable of running me close but then the King goes and shocks the world with his
Harbinger
post! Who else has the foresight of me eh?
Your righ about the name! The Festivl was embarrassing but I tuned it round at Chelteham Hunter Chase meeting, than goodness or I’d have to change my name to The Galway Specialist, I’ve had a great first two days!
Lets agree to keep advising good winners
Some of mine from 2010?
Rash Move W33-1, Rite of Passage W25-1, Bradley W 16-1, Tidal Bay W14-1, Overturn W14-1 etc etcGord,
I’ve posted my thoughts on your tipping on your little money losing notes page… CS, i’d wager you’re a better tipster than Gord.
It does not matter "how many winners a person tips", it’s profit that matters. If you just want a lot of winners, then back every favourite. It won’t make you any money.
Any profitable thread is a good thread. But for a profitable thread to mean much, it should not be based on just one big winner.
Otherwise luck may be the over-riding factor.
"I’m the best, no I’m the best, no I’m the best, no I’m the best".
Settle down children, and set about studying for
future
winners.
Value Is EverythingIt does not matter "how many winners a person tips", it’s profit that matters. If you just want a lot of winners, then back every favourite. It won’t make you any money.
Any profitable thread is a good thread. But for a profitable thread to mean much, it should not be based on just one big winner.
Otherwise luck may be the over-riding factor.
"I’m the best, no I’m the best, no I’m the best, no I’m the best".
Settle down children, and set about studying for
future
winners.
Check my threads Ginger, big profits on last NH season and
approx 1200 points ahead on only two months betting on summer racing, June & July only. Don’t knock it, use it to your advantage, I’m giving it away for free
Keep up the good work and dont be such a Mardy Ba*tard! 
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