- This topic has 211 replies, 34 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 7 months ago by
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- Posts
We must be at the prices.
Has the world gone mad?
Cav,you fall into the "Cant see the wood from the trees" syndrome,underestimate
Harbinger
at your peril,this horse has answered every question he"s been asked and he wont need to phone a friend on Saturday!
Workforce
is an exceptional 3yo but i knew that a long time ago,thank goodness
Youmzain
is running as he will tell us just how good Sir Michaels pair really are!I would say both would have beaten
Dylan Thomas
and
The Duke
! Top class every one of them!
There are more possitives to Harbinger than Workforce for me because at least Harbinger has proven form, so much of Workforce’s ability is yet to be proven..
Ive rarely met anyone who considers times to be that important in European racing because of how different one race to the next is run. The main reason Workforce set the record is down to the pace At First Sight set, I dare say many previous derby winners would of done the same had they of had such a pace maker to run at.
For all the talk of the time it was possibly the worst Derby I can remember.
Workforce beat;
At First Sight – A group 3 or 2 horse at best
Rewilding – Remains to be seen
Jan Vermeer – a very very average horse
Midas Touch – again a very very average horse, to finish 2nd in any Irish Derby these days is nothing to write home about.
Buzzword has managed to win since and he is a decent horse but theres a big difference between a German Derby and a King George, whilst he is a very good horse hes nowhere near good enough for the race on Saturday.
The bottom line he he hasnt beaten much, he himself was beaten by Cape Blanco, there were excuses that day but if your asking punters to take odds on in group one then surely you wouldnt want a horse whos raced three times when he had excuses in one of them….
P*ssed again Joncol?
"The Ante-Post King" wrote: I would say both would have beaten Dylan Thomas and The Duke!
Big statement to make
I would say both would have beaten
Dylan Thomas
and
The Duke
!
Big statement to make
I know you know thm!
Gord, another grandiose statement. How many group 1’s do you think DT had run in and won at the same stage in his career as Harbinger?! Harbinger is way short. I’d agree largely with Cav’s sentiments on this one.
"The Ante-Post King" wrote:
I would say both would have beaten Dylan Thomas and The Duke!
Big statement to make
I know you know thm!
I know that Harbinger would most likely have got his hind-quarters handed to him by Dylan Thomas, and probably by the Duke too!
Workforce still highly unexposed though Surprised this thread is still here given the alacrity that a couple of threads of this nature were moved into Lays And Plays last week, albeit started by less of a forum heavyweight.
No slight on you Cav obviously, but a less than consistent approach one could argue. And if not Lays and Plays, it should definitely be moved to ‘Big Races’.
Well said DJ
I started a thread meaning to be about how a seagull sh!t on Zoe Bird’s racing page, hence where the sh!t landed being a ‘lighthearted’ selection. That thread was moved to Lays and Plays
- Total Posts 17716
The King George betting has no reflection on the true state of play IMO.
The fact both Workforce and Harbinger are trained by SMS is what makes it interesting and gives the bookies premise to play one against the other.
You sum the form up well IMO Carv and if Harbinger was trained elsewhere he’d probably be a few points longer and disputing 2nd fav with Cape Blanco.
IMO Harbinger is a good bet to fold like a pack of cards the minute Murtagh applies the pressure and will be lucky to finsih 2nd.
Can’t see any of them coping with Workforce
We must be at the prices.
Has the world gone mad?Cav,you fall into the "Cant see the wood from the trees" syndrome,underestimate
Harbinger
at your peril,this horse has answered every question he"s been asked and he wont need to phone a friend on Saturday!
Workforce
is an exceptional 3yo but i knew that a long time ago,thank goodness
Youmzain
is running as he will tell us just how good Sir Michaels pair really are!I would say both would have beaten
Dylan Thomas
and
The Duke
! Top class every one of them!
As John McEnroe once said ‘You can not be serious! The Duke was an absolute beast!
That would have been beaten by Papal Bull $ but for said horse getting a nosebleed on hitting the front.
Personally, I cannot see past Youmzain. He looks a solid each way bet. I think Richard Hughes gets the best out of horses and Mr Channon has realised this (Think Music Show).
The form that Mr Stoute is in is the worry with his two horses and I would probably back Harbinger had Ryan Moore chosen to ride him. But how can Ryan Moore get off of the horse that won him his first Epsom Derby? Thinking more with his heart than his head I reckon.
I am not touching an O’Brien horse until the autumn as his horses are up and down like the proverbial whores drawers! Dar Re Mi has been disapointing since her trip to Dubai (Not the first horse to win there to have a terrible season).
With the 8 runners I think that Youmzain will be solid as a rock. I think he boiled over at Epsom and didn’t run his usual race. I think he ran back to his best, which he usually does when getting a new jockey on board for the first time.
Nothing spectacular but and each way punt on Youmzain looks to be the best chance of getting a return in this race. Harbinger is still improving I feel and has had a cracking season. I think he is the danger, and could well win the race!
- Total Posts 17716
There are more possitives to Harbinger than Workforce for me because at least Harbinger has proven form, so much of Workforce’s ability is yet to be proven..
Ive rarely met anyone who considers times to be that important in European racing because of how different one race to the next is run. The main reason Workforce set the record is down to the pace At First Sight set, I dare say many previous derby winners would of done the same had they of had such a pace maker to run at.
For all the talk of the time it was possibly the worst Derby I can remember.
Workforce beat;
At First Sight – A group 3 or 2 horse at best
Rewilding – Remains to be seen
Jan Vermeer – a very very average horse
Midas Touch – again a very very average horse, to finish 2nd in any Irish Derby these days is nothing to write home about.
Buzzword has managed to win since and he is a decent horse but theres a big difference between a German Derby and a King George, whilst he is a very good horse hes nowhere near good enough for the race on Saturday.
The bottom line he he hasnt beaten much, he himself was beaten by Cape Blanco, there were excuses that day but if your asking punters to take odds on in group one then surely you wouldnt want a horse whos raced three times when he had excuses in one of them….
P*ssed again Joncol?
Well Workforce beat dogs in the derby and beat nothing today, oh wait my mistake he did beat the pacemaker Confront…
As I said worst derby I can ever remember….
- Total Posts 17716
Workforce just isnt very good.
He won a derby (imo the worse derby I can remember) in which people glorified him because of the time.
I made the point alreay that the reason for the fast time that day was largely,not totally, but largely down to the blisttering pace set by the At First Sight and how it gave Workforce something to run at.
Times mean nothing in Europen racing and it was proven here today, hes just not that good..
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