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Presumably there’s a physiological explanation why horses can’t ‘pant’
They have no need to as they sweat through their skin. Dogs pant to cool down as they dont sweat
Indeed, that explains why they don’t need to pant, but as far as I know the structure of their throat/larynx means they actually can’t.
Unlike humans who, like horses, also sweat but can pant voluntarily
Similarly, I believe horses very rarely vomit and is a tell-tale sign that the animal is seriously ill
I believe strongly that most people’s opinions on sporting greats; viz-a-viz individual ratings, assessments, etc. have an in built generational bias factored into them.
For those of us around in the 60s who think Arkle was the best ( oh yes, he was !
) , there will inevitably arise a cacophony of outraged derision from 80s and naughties generation who will yell, "no… Dessie was the greatest" or "Kauto Star is the greatest of all."There may even be some old codgers still hanging around who will tell us that no, we’re all wrong – Golden Miller was the daddy of ’em all.
The bottom line is that no amount of hard evidence or official ( and unofficial ) ratings will alter our entrenched mindset on who we, as individuals, consider to be the greatest – in whatever sporting field we choose to cite.
Would Kauto Star have beaten Arkle ? We simply do not know.
My guess is that Kauto Star (and Captain Christy) would have given Arkle one helluva race around Kempton but that Arkle’s superior jumping would have won the day –and at Cheltenham, where Arkle excelled –
well, I think Kauto Star would have struggled to get within 10 lengths of "himself" approaching the finishing line. Arkle would simply have run the guts out of him coming up that hill.
Just my opinion.
That about sums it up for me. You forget what an exceptional jumper Arkle was and he also had this habit of taking another horse on like he did with Brasher in the 65 Hennessey. they went neck and neck for the first mile and then the latter (a tough Scottish National winner) just cracked as he did in a similar aituation in the Whitbread. They tried to break Arkle but couldn’t. Kauto would have come along side, Arkle would have curled his lip and said "lets race pal". Oh boy what a race it would have been but Arkle would have toughed it out the better.
Having said that there is no question about Kauto’s superiority today and he will win the 2010 Gold Cup.
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i have a tiery as regaurds arkle and top jump horses…
ok listen up and pin back your ears!..ok.
in flat racing breeding counts for a lot of the success yes??..answer>yes.
ok well whats the odds of m.dickenson finding 5horses good enough to be the 1st five home in the gold cup?? zero..so it was the trainer NOT the horse..
whats the chance for the only horse the trainer thinks can beat arkle being in the box next to him?.(flying bolt).again next to zero..
and now weve got 2so say world beaters in kauto star and denman in the same yard??
now i dont think anymore evidence is needed that a rating should be for the trainer NOT the horse..
is it not safe to say that the chance of us hearing about any of the above horses should they have been trained by any other trainers than to wich they ended up with REMOTE…
so whats ratings for these trainers?Yes, I’ve been wondering how superior Irish training methods were to British ones in the 1960s. I think Paddy Prendergast was champion British trainer for three consecutive years, despite being based across the Irish Sea.
Certainly, the methods of the Silver Spoon and its who you know rather than what you know brigade must have been in need of improvement if Pipe was able to revolutionise the sport.
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yes its easy to focus on the horse but who ever improved an ex pipe horse?
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I think it’s fantastic at long last we have a horse in Kauto Star that racing fans can seriously compare to Arkle and no one is laughing.
A point I would like to make or I a question I would like to put to everyone regarding weight carrying or the concession of weight: If the King George V1 chase had been a handicap and Kauto Star carried 12 stone and the rest 10st,would it have afffected the final placings.
There’s a very true saying in racing: Taking weight of the average horse doesn’t make them go faster but the addition of weight will stop a good one.
My opinion: Most of those that ran in the Boxing Day sppectactular were beaten so far that weight couldn’t bring them together with Kauto Star. No doubt Nacarat would have lasted longer but Kauto Star passed him with such ease even at 2stone of a difference I couldn’t imagine him handling Kauto’s speed.
There’s a very interesting fact regarding King George times my friend points out:
On average the King George has been run anywhere betweeen
2 and 5 seconds faster than the other 2 chases run on the same day in the same ground/conditions.In 3 out of the 4 King George’s Kauto Star has recorded times around 8-10 seconds faster than the other chases on the same day.
Do that once it’s meaningless but to do it 3 times in a hack canter and that has to be a very good guide to just how special the horse is.
I agree with what "h" said, the most likely outcome had the 2 met in the King George is that it would be a ding dong battle. Arkle didn’t make mistakes when in full flight he was unbelievably accurate at his fences and gained lengths on other horses. He had an amazing gazelle type spring to him when he took off and did this weird thing where he crossed his front legs like a ballet dancer before landing. When he did land he propelled himself away from a fence so fast he had gained lenths on the others around him.
It’s a real shame the film they must have on many of Arkle’s races are locked up in some BBC vault somewhere. If people could actually sit and watch all his races they would soon realise why he was rated so highly.
I think Arkle would have beat him by a length or so but would he have given 20lbs or so to Kauto Star round Kempton and still beat him? Never in a million years.
To save money, the BBC re-used tape, in the 1970s I think. What got preserved was basically up to an accountant. That is why they don’t have a full record of Top Of The Pops or Dads Army or Doctor Who episodes for example.
Going back to the wide Arkle jaw, surely there must be some kind of knock on effect of having a wider throat?
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i still say in national hunt the horse is 45% the trainer 65%..
theres horses out there now for sale that 75% of trainers couldnt get a win out of.
yet in the next 10 years nichols will stumble on many more champions?.- Total Posts 17716
45% Red Rum 65% Ginger McCain even Ginger would roll over laughing at that. What actual figure you would put on it can’t be calculated but it’s a lot of minor things and one big one that makes the difference.
Most trainers come from a background that gives them the know how to train and almost all of them do it very well.
As a basic "Trainer" as such there can be very little difference between themSure one trainer might work a horse up hills another might say no way….some will work them over 7f some 6f but both will end up getting the beast fit.
Where some like Paul Nichols, Martin Pipe etc., excel is they are either very shrewd and have a great eye for a horse or they are simply very clever business men or both.
There is no magic potion or type of exercise you can give a horse that others don’t know about, that suddenly turns him into something he is not.
There are small people out there who have achieved wonders with horses because they were lucky or had the eye to buy the right one. I had the pleasure of meeting Kenn Hogg many years ago who had a horse called Forest King who won many good races..most people would have cut there hand off to own him but Ken as nice a guy as he was couldn’t be called a great trainer.
The thing is had he owned Arkle he would have turned him out like he did Forest King, immaculate and always ready to do his best
A trainer is judged by results and to get the results he must be more than a trainer. There are plenty great trainers about, you have to be a damn good business man as well.
If you are then success breeds success and that’s why it’s so hard to knock the Pipes and PN’s of the top…
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i now no why some people who can spell make such a song and dance about it. because theres not a lot else going on upstairs is there??
lets debate??
debate means to discuss wot u MITE know about racing?
most of the rubbish i hear spoken on hear seems to come off the pages from the racing post ?
wich reminds me of a programe called "not the nine oclock news"..
on not the nine oclock news there was a joke about how the russian news agencey tass had printed today; ROARS OF LAUGHTER..
why did they laugh?
because the russian people DID actualy believe wot they red in that paper to be fact..
im afraid the debate here is killed because not many people here no 1end of a horse from enother and HAVE to rely on what they read..
and worse the cloning of thought seems to have made fact and fiction become blured?- Total Posts 17716
now my last word on this is as follows…
no there are not any unlucky trainers just useless ones and better ones..
no the 1st five home in the gold cup would not have made any difference wich horses dickenson had trained up for that race it was HE not them that did it..
NO all those useless ex flat horses MARTIN PIPE trained to look like world beaters would have won if joe blogs trained them..
NO it was not CHANCE that flying bolt was in the box next to arkle ,HELLO they had the best trainer..
and did kauto star and denman just happen to be in the same yard at the same yard?? ugh NO..
so if you want to try and be smart 1st grow a brain!..
i said 45% horse i think we can say i was being over generous to the horse..
im a pipe fan but have to admit nichols would make a horse 50% better animal than if it wer trained anyware else,(exept the pipes).
so when you talk of arkle remember it would of been another from the same yard if he wasnt around..- Total Posts 17716
So, even with the worst five horses in the race, Michael Dickinson – you could at least spell his name correctly – would still have trained the first five home simply because he was who he was?
And here was me thinking you knew everything.
I think it was Fred Winter who opined that you can’t really go looking for a champion, they just turn up in your yard one day.
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oh they just turn up??
95% of yard are still waiting then
) , there will inevitably arise a cacophony of outraged derision from 80s and naughties generation who will yell, "no… Dessie was the greatest" or "Kauto Star is the greatest of all."
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