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in Iran with President Army Dinnerjacket or whatever he is called when he happily announced that "We have no homosexuals in this country".
.. that’s a bit racist and disrespectful of other people’s cultures, is it not?
If the company is big you will generally find that they have demographic targets to meet. Being homosexual, ethnic etc is a job hunting advantage.
If you were an ethnic lesbian in a wheelchair then there arent many government departments that will turn you away, and you’ll probably fly up the promotional ladder.
Obviously this is positive discrimination but it goes on.
…positive discrimination?..
yet to infiltrate the horse race commentary rosters it would seem – clearly the last bastion of male dominance
All the bright colours of the jockeys silks would confuse a woman’s pretty little head.
If the buggers know that your sexality and you then suffer discrimination as a result of it, it makes your job of hauling them over the coals that much easier.
If you have a disabilty its a good idea too mention that as well.
…positive discrimination?..
yet to infiltrate the horse race commentary rosters it would seem – clearly the last bastion of male dominance
a) the timbre of the female voice is not generally suited to commentary – just listen to Jaqui Oakley’s attempts on Five Live!!!
b) Who is there in racing? – Lydia "I still have a big chip my shoulder" Hislop – who would be far too interested in giving her opinion – yawn – than an objective commentary.
Alex Quinn, Emma Spencer, Zoe Bird – enough said!!
The best chance would be Clare Balding, who I have heard call part of a race when Croc’s mike packed up, and she did a reasonable job.
…very old fashioned attitudes, completely unsuitable for this multi-cultural, multi-sexed society we live in today Paul
I note we’ve had a female Islamic prayer leader this week, so I suppose things are looking up
…very old fashioned attitudes, completely unsuitable for this multi-cultural, multi-sexed society we live in today Paul
I note we’ve had a female Islamic prayer leader this week, so I suppose things are looking up
Old fashioned, non-PC and proud of it.
…that is your preogative on a personal level, Paul, but not in the field of sex discrimination.
On a more serious note, the female presenters you mention probably wouldn’t be best suited to commentating, even if they wanted to. Female sports presenters, as with newsreaders, seem to be chosen in the main, to be as easy on the eye for the male viewer as to any other skills, unlike their male counterparts. Good looking presenters don’t always make the best commentators, some might argue Mike Cattermole would come under this category.
I feel sure there are plenty of women out there who would make excellent commentators, given the encouragement and opportunity, which is the key I think, much like their jockey equivalents they need a little helping hand to start them off.
Of those we know in the sport, possibly Tanya Stephenson might make the grade if she was so inclined, otherwise I think it would have to be a different type of woman who would be suited to this role, perhaps someone a little less feminine. I’m sure they could hardly do worse that some of the males who commentate at some lesser courses, here and in Ireland, and those on Equidia for example, who don’t do a lot for me I have to say.
On a more serious note, the female presenters you mention probably wouldn’t be best suited to commentating, even if they wanted to. Female sports presenters, as with newsreaders, seem to be chosen in the main, to be as easy on the eye for the male viewer as to any other skills, unlike their male counterparts. Good looking presenters don’t always make the best commentators.
I wholeheartedly agree and I would rather have an unattractive knowledgeable presenter than air brained totty ….. the best person for the job should be doing the job.
However it must surely be accepted that some jobs are far better suited to one gender than another. I would suspect most women would be unhappy to be dealt with by a male midwife for example. Similarly I personally don’t think working down a coal mine is a suitable job for a woman.
I feel sure there are plenty of women out there who would make excellent commentators, given the encouragement and opportunity, which is the key I think, much like their jockey equivalents they need a little helping hand to start them off.
I have no doubt there are women who have the technical ability but I go back to the original point I made about the timbre of the voice and most women’s voices do not sound good over a PA system and it would detract from the commentary. I have cited this example before but Di Clarke, the racecourse judge, has a very pleasant natural speaking voice but as soon as she is on the PA at the course her voice sounds incredibly shrill, which I would find offputting were she calling the race, no matter how competent she was. It is not sexist per-se there are many men who have unsuitable "broadcast voices" as well.
However it must surely be accepted that some jobs are far better suited to one gender than another. I would suspect most women would be unhappy to be dealt with by a male midwife for example. Similarly I personally don’t think working down a coal mine is a suitable job for a woman.
I can’t comment on Di Clarke as I’ve not heard her, and medical issues are certainly a delicate matter, but just to take the above paragraph, I personally couldn’t make such generalisations about people as that, women or men, as to whether one sex is more suited to one job or another. there are always exceptions, and it’s these exceptions that should be encouraged to apply and allowed to prosper without prejudice.
Horses for courses but women must be given a chance here I think, the same as you would a male secretary, there are a few of those around, and there would be a lot more if convention allowed, i.e. male bosses don’t want them, I think.
Apologies to Love Divine for diverting this thread a little, and allowing rampant feminism to take hold
p.s. by the way Paul, I know you fly a lot, I was wondering how you feel about being flown by a female pilot….
….petrified I imagine
…positive discrimination?..
yet to infiltrate the horse race commentary rosters it would seem – clearly the last bastion of male dominance
I do wish some woman somewhere would emerge to dispell once and for all the notion that all women racing commentators would surely be as bad as Mirabel Topham…
a) the timbre of the female voice is not generally suited to commentary – just listen to Jaqui Oakley’s attempts on Five Live!!!
That’d be Jacqui Oatley, I presume, whose work I happen to enjoy hugely.
Part of that would be down to the fact her very presence sets hell in the most appalling cavemen still blighting the football media (evening, Dave Bassett), but mostly because, far from being unsuitable, the timbres and diction are far clearer and less hysterical than a lot of her more vaunted male counterparts.
I cannot abide the SCREAMASLOUDASYOUCANANDBEGGARIFANYONECANUNDERSTANDIT!!!! delivery that is the first resort of Jonathan Pearce, close to the first resort of Alan Green, and distressingly also used more often by the likes of Mike Ingham than used to be the case. Listening to football commentaries on Five Live / Radio 2 MW (delete as applicable) is nowhere near the pleasure it used to be a two decades ago – Peter Jones and Bryon Butler were far more careful and classy than that, and would imbue their delivery with all the gravitas it required, when required, without trying to dislodge the listeners’ earwax every 30 seconds.
I’d love to know how many of those opponents of Ms Oatley (who would be regarded as little out of the ordinary in some territories on the planet, where female commentators abound) approve of the shoutiness of the aforementioned, but at the same time dislike the Stentorian tone of Mark Johnson on the racetrack. That doesn’t strike me as especially consistent.
Oh, and I will personally disown anyone on TRF that admits to being a member of any of the Facebook groups out there that not only want her sacked, but actually killed as well.
b) Who is there in racing? – Lydia “I still have a big chip my shoulder” Hislop – who would be far too interested in giving her opinion – yawn – than an objective commentary.
That’s more than a little slur on her professional integrity, Paul. Were RUK’s audio feed to Aintree to pack up part-way through the National and she was in the booth, do you honestly think she’d do anything other than try to keep the viewers – likely to be among the channel’s biggest total of the year for any one race – informed as to what’s going on in the race?
The best chance would be Clare Balding, who I have heard call part of a race when Croc’s mike packed up, and she did a reasonable job.
…and more than that, actually led Five Live’s commentary on the major matches in the women’s singles at Wimbledon this year, including the final, with a nigh-on perfect grasp of tone, diction and gravitas.
She would be equally excellent at racing or football, I don’t doubt, but as such an all-rounder with such a huge portfolio as it is, I don’t suppose either she or Auntie Beeb would be in a hurry to spread her talents any thinner than they already are.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
p.s. by the way Paul, I know you fly a lot, I was wondering how you feel about being flown by a female pilot….
….petrified I imagine
No problem whatsoever – I was actually on the first BA flight to have an all female crew and it happened to be an excellent landing in poor weather conditions.
a) the timbre of the female voice is not generally suited to commentary – just listen to Jaqui Oakley’s attempts on Five Live!!!
That’d be Jacqui Oatley, I presume, whose work I happen to enjoy hugely.
She’s the one – see she speaks so unclearly I can’t even hear what her name is correctly
.We all have our personal preferences and because one likes / dislike a particular commentator does not mean others need to hold the same view.
To me she is intelligible when she hits full throttle.
I cannot abide the SCREAMASLOUDASYOUCANANDBEGGARIFANYONECANUNDERSTANDIT!!!! delivery that is the first resort of Jonathan Pearce, close to the first resort of Alan Green, and distressingly also used more often by the likes of Mike Ingham than used to be the case. Listening to football commentaries on Five Live / Radio 2 MW (delete as applicable) is nowhere near the pleasure it used to be a two decades ago – Peter Jones and Bryon Butler were far more careful and classy than that, and would imbue their delivery with all the gravitas it required, when required, without trying to dislodge the listeners’ earwax every 30 seconds.
Again it comes down to personal preference, although I do concur with regards Jonathan Pearce. However with Alan Green you can still understand what he is saying.
Oh, and I will personally disown anyone on TRF that admits to being a member of any of the Facebook groups out there that not only want her sacked, but actually killed as well.
I wouldn’t support either option – I find the Off swich just as effective
b) Who is there in racing? – Lydia "I still have a big chip my shoulder" Hislop – who would be far too interested in giving her opinion – yawn – than an objective commentary.
That’s more than a little slur on her professional integrity, Paul.
Again Jeremy that is a matter of opinion, which will be formed from the information one happens to have to hand. I only caught a little of RUK’s coverage on Saturday but from the bits I did hear I note she still seems to be conducting her personal vendetta with Jim Bolger.
There’s a very straight bat played to some of those points, Paul. Fight, for God’s sake, man, fight!
(Actually, don’t. Just do as you will but harm none. We’re all splendid when we do that.)
Per Lydia, I’d be neither clued-up enough nor too interested on what real or imagined agenda she may have with Bolger, being as he operates in the Wrong Code for my preferences. I’d presumed you brought up her name in specific response to Ugly Mare’s question of which women out there could commentate well on a horse race, and asked you what I did with that alone in mind. Any thoughts?
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
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