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I am very happy with high turnover, multiple bets per meeting frequently 2 per race, often dutching bets
not happy with picking a couple of horses in morning, coupling them together in various bets, looking for some kind of return
gut feeling will pull me away if I consider the day is going wrong. So I will break….watch a few then come back when I feel ready
one horse – one race bets are "iffy" for me to have success, especially straight win bets. Quiet races, not high profile meetings for me but I had a very good Cheltenham with the high turnover method so perhaps it’s time to try the up market approach and play the bigger meetings
Maurice
Let’s say £50,000.
That’s a lot of money to "need" to make. Especially given that it’s tax free.
If someone is clearing (and needs to clear) £50k a year and wants to give up what they’re doing to be a pro-punter, I think they’re probably crazy.
Apart from that, the point of your post – that people should work out how much they’d need to punt a week or day – is good advice.
And, if you add on top of that the bank you’d need to sustain that through the hard times, you start to see the difference between being a winning punter and a pro.
Steve
maurice,
Well put. For me the answer is no, yet it never ceases to amaze me how many would be professional punters fail to think through this basic truth. The best most people can hope for is to do it part- time with the safety net of a steady income from another source.
Indeed, many ‘professionals’ have to supplement their income(or even subsidise their activities) from running tipping services, doing newspaper columns or appearing on racing channels – writing books is not as lucrative as many believe.
Quote: from EC on 11:10 pm on Mar. 24, 2006[br]I know Robert what you are saying..in some races though the first five in the betting can mean 8 or 9 horses.
So does really narrow it down?
It sounds common sense because you are reducing the horses you are looking at..but the ones you don’t look at win rarely anyway. You still have between 5 and 8 horses to study.
maybe we should only study races with 5, 6 or 7 horses running…which is my preferred type of field size<br>
EC,
Well the number 5 is not cast in stone – it just illustrates the principle and fits the average field size. I would actually use my "third of field plus one formula" from my racing tutorial. So your specialisation of 5 – 7 runners would then only concentrate on the first 3 in the BF. An 18 runner field would concentrate on the first 7 in BF etc.
After a sift, I can pass up on many races as not worth betting on, so any time saving filtering them out, multiplies into saving many otherwise totally wasted hours on a busy racing day, that can be put to far more effective use. It all adds up to several weeks saved in a year and time is money.
robert
Stevedvg,
Fair point, £50k clear equates to about £90k gross. But, we’re talking long-term averages so it’s possible that in a ‘poor’ year profits would be down quite substantially and if I were to ‘go pro’ I’d want to base any likely annual income on a worst-case-scenario basis.
Also, I imagine that if you are successful, it wouldn’t be at all long before bookmakers started to limit your bets quite severely.
£2000 per day might be OK for some people. If you take on board the fact there are on average three meetings per day with six races per card, you’re lookig at an average of 18 races per day from which to find 10 bets @ £200 or 5 bets at £400, or 4 bets @ £500. You’d need to be confident of strike rates of at least 12%, 25% or 33% respectively to make them pay.
My strike rate is around 20% but my average price tends to be between 6/1 and 10/1 so I’m in front long-term but I usually only bet in what I consider to be quality races and I don’t bet enough for it to be life-changing.
Like you say Maurice bookmakers limit stakes severely if you start winning regularly particularly in shop where they can’t actually "see" who you are financially and betting wise etc.
With online, credit betting I’m sure they have access to your past bets where as with betting in a regular shop they don’t. It’s not unusual for someone to go into a betting shop totally unknown to staff and place a few large bets, collect and not be seen again for a few months or never again (as happened to me and my manager the day before last years Royal Ascot).
At what point would online and high street bookmakers<br>close your accounts or refuse to do business with you?
I assume that some punters must reach the stage where they can only use betfair or go to the betting ring.  <br>
(Edited by threenaps at 9:11 am on Mar. 26, 2006)
I’d say if you consistently made a four figure profit over a trading period, say 3 months then they might limit your stakes though I think it would depend on what you were backing.
If you backed specifically on say Stoute Handicappers, big bets every 3 weeks or so and kept winning then they’d probably only let you have a few hundred on said horses from the yard. I guess it differs from company to company though.
Depends on the firm. Surrey Racing closed me down some years ago because 3 ante-post bets won at Cheltenham. Boyles in Ireland just keep reducing what you are allowed to have on until is gets silly- I can have 25 quid now! That way they can claim that they don’t close winning accounts.Bruce closed me once I won over a six month period. I personally find the bigger UK firms fine, maybe because I’m not hurting them much!<br>I think the advent of Betfair and the huge increase in the amount of money sloshing around has made the big firms slightly braver than before.<br>
Like EC says only me and him don’t make a living from betting .. the internet is bulging at the seams with pros or .. I make a bit type punters.
I think to be a pro at this game you have to have been really unsuccessful in your ordinary life and have no pals or a wife or anything, the more virginal the better. If you manage to eek a smallish edge you would be making at least £100K a year .. anything less is just luck.
A mate of mine thinks he’s a pro and he wanted £5K on the ManU game today. After 15 minutes on the phone they cut him back to £500, but gave him the whole 2/5 or whatever it was ..
I suspect that I am more in tune with stevedgv than anyone else. I had a go at being a pro for a while and woke up one morning and whoosh .. all my hair fell out in my cornflakes. I chucked it in at that point and got a proper job.
Quote: from dave jay on 8:21 pm on Mar. 26, 2006[br]
I think to be a pro at this game you have to have been really unsuccessful in your ordinary life ÂÂÂ
I think opposite is probably true.
Quote: from threenaps on 9:04 am on Mar. 26, 2006[br]At what point would online and high street bookmakers<br>close your accounts or refuse to do business with you?<br>
<br>With most of the big firms you can actually stay under the radar even as a winner as long as you dont fall into one of such categories as arbing, following ‘warm’ money (certain tipping lines, stables etc), each-way theft etc. They seem to clamp down on this type of trade before they go after winners per se.
I’m pretty sure that Dave looking knackered has very little to do with any alleged "no socialising" policy!
Around this time last year I lost my job-I also hit peak form on the horses.In a ten week period from mid April I won a little over€15,000-my betfair commission points were up to around 18,000.I was betting an absolutely savage amount but because I was winning I felt fully entitled to have a go.One friend of mine advised me to run with the ball and see how far I could take it.I was laying odds on shots in maidens for a grand and being fairly relaxed about it.<br>I got offered a job starting Royal Ascot week and I contemplated taking the summer off to see how far I could take it but having a wife and a child who was only ten months old at the time I really had to take the job-which I am still in.<br>Strangely enough when I started work I lost a couple of grand fairly fast so I did the sensible thing paid off a few bills ,bought a few things for the house and paid for a nice little holiday.<br>I have to say it was tremendously exciting while it lasted but you need nerves and balls of steel.
With the basic wage set cuurrently at £5.52 an hour or £220.80 for a 40 hour week before tax and N.I. (and the costs of transport getting to work unless one walks or cycles). There is obviously not much left to live on.
This simple method normally makes much more money every year.
It is something your average bookmaker knows all about and if one was lazy and used just one shop or one on- line firm its odds on you will be barred before too long.
It is nothing new and I take no credit for explaining it.
Open around 10 seperate accounts seek out two or more 8 runner races the same day. Of course some days there may not be any or just one.
Back the 1st second clear favourite each way with firm A.
If that gets placed or wins invest the stake and winnings on the next second fav to win and to get placed with firm B.
If there are more 8 runner races invest any winnings and the stake with firm C.So you are looking for each way doubles all the time and backing the clear second favourite to win and to get placed.
This of course does not work on the likes of betfair where there are two seperate markets.(One just to win and one just to place).
On the next following day when there are at least two 8 runner races start with firm D. etc etc until you are back with firm A.
Normally one can start out getting £50 ew without any problem.
You could use various shops if you live in a town or city to vary it and give yourself more time before you will find bets are starting to get refused.
The major drawback is the ability to get on.
The advantages are clear as there is no need to study form, or even buy The Racing Post and it takes little thought to calculate the next bet.
If you look on the Systems section of this website the details are listed there under EW DOUBLES. There are also comments about this method under the title ‘No such thing as a winning system’.
However this one has been for many years.
Since I have been posting the results since this part way through January I think it is a £50 ew on every one at s.p. is up over £4,000 00.
That currently equates to £1,300 a month. Tax free.Obviously there can and will be months where it may lose but it normally makes a healthy annual return overall.
There are various websites that will calculate winnings for doubles, trebles etc.
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