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  • #70451
    stevedvg
    Member
    • Total Posts 1137

    Such as???

    Depends on the skills you use to be a successful punter.

    However, if you happen to be an analytical and systemic punter, is there a shortage of careers that use these skills?

    e.g. IT, business analysts, operations management, investment …. the list goes on and on.

    Steve

    #70452
    carvillshill
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2778

    Never knew ex-Arsenal player Graham Rix was a professional punter!<br>

    (Edited by carvillshill at 1:09 pm on Mar. 23, 2006)

    #70453
    stevedvg
    Member
    • Total Posts 1137

    Never knew ex-Arsenal payer Graham Rix was a professional punter!

    It’s his new job, he started yesterday.

    #70454
    apracing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3099

    <br>Carvills,

    Then again, that Henry Rix was a wizard on the left wing when he wasn’t tipping winners!

    I’d support what Steve says about using the same skills in other fields and it’s probably significant that many of the full time punters I’ve met in the last fifteen years have had a background in IT, accountancy etc, or have run their own business.

    AP<br>

    #70455
    carvillshill
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2778

    What gets on my wick most is when a horse is long odds-on and idiots on the racing media suggest that "only the professionals will be getting involved at that price" Anyone backing horses at long odds-on will have to find another way of feeding the family fairly soon, I respectfully suggest…. my eyes light up when I see a short fav to see if I can get it beat, there’s where the money is….<br>

    (Edited by carvillshill at 1:21 pm on Mar. 23, 2006)

    #70456
    SirHarryLewis
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1208

    [/Never knew ex-Arsenal payer Graham Rix was a professional punter!

    It’s his new job, he started yesterday]

    damm…sorry got mixed up.  And the only thing i know Graham rix gets on is the sex offenders registry.

    <br>The point you make about accountants and IT people might be true but like me, I  hope that was there profession before they decided to wander into punting….and probabaly isnt the other way around.

    SHL

    #70457
    betlarge
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2663

    Flat Season Lover

    Whatever road you go down, two rules are unbreakable.

    1. Keep a seperate bank account for gambling.

    2. Record every bet, and I mean every bet.

    Do this and you’ll soon know whether capable of making a living from punting.

    Best of luck,

    Mike

    #70458
    clivex
    Member
    • Total Posts 3420

    Think of it this way…

    To make say £3k a month to cover expenses and your own lifestyle, you would need to punt £30k if you were making a regular 10% margin

    Perhaps some operate to a higher margin than that but i recall Alex Bird saying he survived on something like 4/5 %<br>

    #70459
    stevedvg
    Member
    • Total Posts 1137

    Mordin gave some advice which is worth considering if you want to be a pro:

    "Pick a race each day where you believe the favourite will lose and choose a horse to back against it.

    After 30 days, if you’re showing a solid profit, you have the ability to be a pro."  

    I’d add to this the caveat "subject to having the right temperament".

    I’m going to say something about betting on horses that’s quite controversial, but I believe it to be true.

    The exchanges have made a big difference to betting and, although the market is probably more efficient, with the low takeouts today (and removal of betting tax), I reckon it must be a lot easier to make a profit betting on racing than it was 10 years ago.

    In fact, I believe that the punter now has the advantage over the market and should expect to make a profit.

    If there are an average of 20 races a day, with an average of 10 horses per race, that’s 200 horses priced up each day.

    That’s 200 prices that are offered to the punter to back, lay or ignore.

    (and, as these prices change over time, it’s really a lot more than 200)

    The ability to be selective and only choose to get involved with the prices that are most obviously wrong must be worth more than the 5% taken out by betfair.

    So, a punter of average ability who has the discipline to only say "bet" when the price is right should be able to make a profit.

    That’s not the same as making a living, which is a level above, but it’s very satisfying to know that, over a year, you’ve made a profit on your betting.

    And that’s something I believe the average punter can realistically aim for and expect.

    Steve

    (Edited by stevedvg at 2:53 pm on Mar. 23, 2006)

    #70460
    stevedvg
    Member
    • Total Posts 1137

    To clarify what I wrote earlier, here’s a link to something I learned when I worked in Investment that is very useful when thinking about betting markets:

    http://www.sandmansplace.com/Mr_Market.html      

    #70461
    clivex
    Member
    • Total Posts 3420

    Steve…very true about the exchanges..

    But Mordins "race a day". Why? There are many days when i barely recognise a runner let alone be confident about the form. Shackling myself to that would be stupid

    #70462
    FlatSeasonLover
    Member
    • Total Posts 2065

    Tanks for all the responses to the thread, I can see everyone has got a different opinion on how to go about it. Is there two or three rules that hold true for everyone, eg not backing odds on shots? If anyone had anything I might find useful and would like to PM me that would also be appreciated.

    #70463
    cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 8796

    Steve –

    Theoretically correct in what you say about the 200-ish horses a day but the difficulty is that i don’t believe anyone can analyse 200 horses prices per day effectively.

    I think you need certain rules of thumb to assist in targetting those race types likeliest to yield bets which the market has priced wrongly.

    The market would appear to be more efficient but I’m not sure if that’s true. Are horses priced more accurately these days? Anyone got any stats on that?

    #70464
    carvillshill
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2778

    I am no pro, but I have been profitable every year for some time, except for a major blip last year, when I was a narrow loser. Post Cheltenham and after getting the jackpot the other day, I am in a position to say that I am certain to win this year, so I shouldn’t have to keep my promise to ‘er indoors to quit if I have 2 losing years.<br>I fully agree with the previous points regarding a separate bank account and recording of bets: these to me are a given, and I refuse to believe anyone who says they are profitable if they do not keep accounts.<br>The separate account with a decent float (at least 100 times your average stake) takes the pressure off during a bad run, and assures you don’t understake when you see value during a sticky patch.<br>I feel it is important to specialise, and I find it hard to fathom tipsters who give you horses, dogs, tennis players and golfers to back between football bets. My occasional forays into other sports are usually unsuccessful and are becoming rarer- try to get to know a lot about a finite group of horses, rather than attempting to keep up with everything.<br>Watch as much racing as possible, both in the flesh and on TV- you will see things about horse’s attitudes and quirks the formbook can never teach you (Racing Demon!) <br>Develop systems and routines that you follow, improving them year to year.<br>Don’t be a slave to any one method, be it speed figures or trends, but try and pick the best from multiple sources.<br>Be humble, and always willing to learn from others- the arrogant man is always a losing punter.<br>Do not underestimate the huge difference between doing this for fun for yourself and doing it for a living or to give tips to other people for reward- that’s pressure.<br>Read as much as you can on the subject- if you haven’t read all of Alan’s books and Nick Mordin’s for a start, as well as Andy Beyer, then do so. <br>Be a sceptic- don’t believe the pundits or the hype, make your own mind up based on what you’ve seen.<br>Don’t underestimate the time it takes to gain an edge- if you are not prepared to work very very hard then forget it- there are no short cuts to winning at this game.<br>Lastly, buy something nice for yourself or your missus when you have a good win- otherwise you won’t remember it as fondly- I have a More Rainbows suit and am soon to have a Newmill Cheltenham picture!<br>Good Luck!

    (Edited by carvillshill at 5:39 pm on Mar. 23, 2006)

    #70465
    clivex
    Member
    • Total Posts 3420

    Great post Carvills :)

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