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Viewing 15 posts - 121 through 135 (of 137 total)
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  • #154090
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17718

    Aragorn

    I disagree somewhat.
    Having been a wage slave for years, then working even longer hours running my own business, mostly for the benefit of the taxman, the VATman, the banks, accountants, and insurance companies, there is no substitute for the independence of working when you want, where you want, and for as long as you want, and answering to NO ONE.
    Like most ways of earning a crust, it becomes exactly what you make it.

    #154123
    Grimes
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1891

    All my punting in nickels and dimes does is pay a few bills – with disappointing intervals…! But I think your posts were very perceptive, tooting, and notably, your last one, just above, reet hard.

    #154126
    Salselon
    Member
    • Total Posts 883

    Reet,

    Do you mean me, or indeed Aragorn?

    #154163
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17718

    Salselon

    My apologies to both you and Aragorn.
    My rather hurried reply was addressed to Andrew Hughes (Aranalde?), though it appears to have lost something in passing through my brain. :roll:

    #154204
    dave jay
    Member
    • Total Posts 3386

    There are some good posts on this thread and some really badly informed ones. I suppose you can only really talk with any confidence from your own experiences.

    I dont believe there is any such thing as easy money outside paid employment. After a life time of being self employed, running factories for other people, running my own businesses etc, ive gone into a sort of semi-retirement. I am currently in paid employment and it is so easy. I get up go to work, come home, get paid, get sick pay, get holiday pay .. get sent around the world and get paid even more .. and its all so easy and stress free.

    The money isnt as good, but the amount of effort required to get an extra few hundred quid a month doesnt justify the amount of effort required to get it.

    People who regularly make money gambling, arent gamblers because they know they are going to win. Think about it !

    #154206
    Matron
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5841

    Dave,

    Do you mean that they have an indication what is going to win or lose? (Allegedly, of course.)

    Regards – Matron
    :cool:

    #154207
    dave jay
    Member
    • Total Posts 3386

    Both or either .. but its not called gambling when you know your going to win.

    #154213
    Sean Rua
    Member
    • Total Posts 511

    But you DO know you’re going to win, don’t you , Dave?
    It’s just when, and, how much, that pose the uncertainty.

    Well, that is the case for myself, so I’m sure it must apply to the brighter lights on this forum. Strictly speaking, there is nothing to say that I won’t be starving of the hunger some day in the future. in fact, I do go hungry at times, when things go against me, but I always bounce back, eventually.
    One day, I won’t, of course, but there’s no profit in dwelling on that.

    I don’t believe that any of this makes me unique; I think it applies universally. Who knows?

    Btw, I think there is such a thing as easy money outside paid employment; I know a guy – relation of mine – who inherited a fortune when his father died. The kid was barely eighteen at the time. He’s never worked in his life, except for doing hobbies. Apparently, the estate is shrinking, but I can’t see him ever having to do much in order to stay comfortable.

    #154220
    carvillshill
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2778

    Interesting points above. For the last ten years or so I can be fairly confident on 1st Jan that I will make money over the year. As Sean Rua says, what I don’t know is when, or how much. What I do know is that until relatively recently if I was being paid by the hour for the work involved, it would have been minimum wage stuff. The only thing is that once you are sure you have an edge, there is nothing to stop you upscaling the operation- in theory if you double your average stake, you double your profits. That’s where I am now, but increased stakes bring their own problems- getting on, for one. I get the impression that punters like AP have migrated to Betfair for this very reason and even though 70% of my current turnover is with traditional bookmakers, I can see this dropping over the coming years as it gets harder to get on. If you can find an edge in well-traded markets on Betfair, that’s got to be the way forward.

    #154222
    Drone
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5115

    Just happened on this thread again, that EC was a modest bloke!

    EC was an interesting, knowledgeable correspondent with many a novel take on race analysis who had a healthy scepticism (verging on an unhealthy cynicism) for conventional received wisdom. For that he was worthy of applause.

    Trouble is his temperament resembled that of a rhino with a red-hot poker up its ar*se; hence his inability to make his betting pay. Refreshingly self-confessed of course, as were his numerous references to ‘liking a bet’.

    As has been mentioned elsewhere on this thread those with a volatile, mercurial temperament and an addiction to the gamble-induced adrenalin rush are not best accoutered for a venture into beat-the-book land.

    Good to see this thread re-emerge, and some very good additions to it there are too.

    #154225
    GeorgeJ
    Participant
    • Total Posts 160

    Dave

    You wrote: "People who regularly make money gambling, aren’t gamblers because they know they are going to win".

    That is a much better way of saying what I intended to convey by my phrase "an approach to betting which had proved robust enough to give good grounds for thinking it a realistic basis for making a living". One could perhaps add that they know because their approach (whatever it is) is both logical and validated in action – both are necessary for real confidence.

    #154227
    Sean Rua
    Member
    • Total Posts 511

    I feel I understand your problem, carvillshill, and I think it is similar to what most businesses face when they expand.
    How often have we witnessed a decent family business fail to make the leap to PLC status? Success brings problems and sometimes the mushroom grows so big so fast, it just kees over and dies.

    I’ve seen victims of "expansion" so many times ( even if only on the customer service front). The big operations ain’t the same somehow.The little things don’t seem to work anymore.
    I think that a lot of this is down to the need to delegate. Once that occurs, then, often, ime, problems and costs arise.

    The great thing about being a punter, for me, is that I’m a one-man-band. I love the freedom, but fully realise the limitations.

    Trouble is, expansion would mean bringing in others, and that leads to costs, aggro, and, dare I mention it, possible business registration and taxation. Horror of horrors! Back in the loop, working for the Man again!

    I would agree that the Exchanges may offer you your best solution, but as a staunch enemy of these, it grieves me to admit so!
    Commission and Liquidity may become increasing difficulties, I guess.

    ‘Tis hard to win, but losing is not an option!

    #154235
    apracing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3099

    Carvills is correct in assuming that the move to Betfair, in my case at least, was as much due to problems getting bets on as anything else. I mostly played on course up to the end of 2000, and encountered little difficulty, but even then there were limits to what could be staked and/or won on a race. At the time, I was perfectly happy operating within those limits.

    It’s a moot point as to whether the decline of the on course market was caused entirely by BF or by a mix of that and the deregulation brought about by pitch reforms. Either way, there’s not much life left in that market at most midweek meetings – fewer books present, mostly playing to lower liability levels and most of them total strangers to me, unlike the many layers that I knew and worked with in the 80’s and 90’s.

    Using BF at home also cuts out a lot of expenses for travel and admission and saves the time otherwise spent on the road. Those savings pay a sizable portion of the commission, which in itself is just a more visible version of the fixed odds bookies margin.

    It’s mostly boring and solitary and I don’t think I would have been interested in this lifestyle when I first went full time at 44 – but now at 60, giving up the driving is no great loss and I’ve no prospect of making a living any other way.

    Would I do it all again – definitely.

    AP

    #154260
    Drone
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5115

    It’s a moot point as to whether the decline of the on course market was caused entirely by BF or by a mix of that and the deregulation brought about by pitch reforms.

    I would contend that the abolition of UK off-course betting tax in 2001 (hard on the heels of Chandler’s 3% from Gib) had at least as detrimental effect on the on-course market as did the – approximately concurrent – emergence of Betfair as a serious player. The latter being a painful blow on the former’s deep bruise.

    Although my staking was never really at a sufficient level to warrant the ‘tax saving’ expense of regular travel and admission to the racecourses, when a nicely priced winner was had on-course the knowledge that the (always enjoyable) day-at-the-races had been ‘free’ due to having not paid tax-on made the succesful bet all the more pleasurable.

    For the regular monkey-plus player such as yourself AP, I would have thought that being able to sit at home and phone your bets through tax-free provided a great disincentive to throw on best bib-and-tucker and tread the once familiar path to the racecourse.

    #154263
    Matron
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5841

    AP,

    Imagine, what your fuel bills would be know travelling from course to course compared to just a few years ago.

    You are now a "carbon efficient" gambler.

    Regards – Matron
    :cool:

Viewing 15 posts - 121 through 135 (of 137 total)
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