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We all see non triers everyday,its how they are disguised that makes it so difficult to identify! Most serious racing enthusiasts know half a dozen ways how a horse can be beaten without it screaming Non trier! Casela Park was an embarrassment of an effort,Point North isn"t that far behind and yet these Stewards cant see it! We"ll put this one down to "Another one gets through the net"! Darryls pushing his luck lately,Credit swap winning the Cambridgeshire proves that!
The Ante-Post King
We all see non triers everyday,its how they are disguised that makes it so difficult to identify! Most serious racing enthusiasts know half a dozen ways how a horse can be beaten without it screaming Non trier! Casela Park was an embarrassment of an effort,Point North isn"t that far behind and yet these Stewards cant see it! We"ll put this one down to "Another one gets through the net"! Darryls pushing his luck lately,Credit swap winning the Cambridgeshire proves that!
Nothing much will happen with regard to non triers until:
a) The handicap system is radically altered. What other sport lumps weight on athletes to stop them winning?
b) Jockeys are protected from the crooks the day they become apprentices/conditionals. I know this is difficult if already connected to them!
c) Penalties for corruption must be much more severe. No contact with the racing industry. No riding out for stables. No passing on trainer licences to wives or friends.
The BHA cannot prove clever corrupt rides easily but they could do much more to prevent this occurring on a regular basis.
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Nothing much will happen with regard to non triers until:
a) The handicap system is radically altered. What other sport lumps weight on athletes to stop them winning?Attractive idea, in theory.
My thought is, that if you turned most handicaps into very narrow band limited stakes races (say all within 10 pounds), in an attempt to give every horse some sort of chance, I expect the most likely outcome would be a dearth of runners in higher band stakes and a glut of even lower quality races at the lower bands than we’re forced to endure at the moment.
Horses would move up and down the bands with such regularity that consistent form lines (in what would most likely be much smaller fields) might be very hard to trace.
Can anyone come up with a less dodgy "limited handicap" idea than I’ve managed?
What other sport lumps weight on athletes to stop them winning?
What are you saying – ban Jamie Spencer and Richard Hills altogether? Bit unfair that. Sorry.
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TAPK
Credit Swap improved his rating on both his 2nd and 3rd outings under D Holland, winning one and finishing 3rd (btn 1/2l) in the other, and was ridden in both in exactly the same mannner as when winning the Cambridgeshiire.Pinza
When Redford won his Ayr Gold Cup, there was 8lbs between top and bottom weight, and just 13lbs for his subsequent vicory at Ascot. Any number of handicaps carry a similar weught range nowadays, (probably due to there being so many horses) and it makes little difference to the incidence of favourites winning them.This idea that handicaps are the root cause of corruption is mistaken (imo), and there are probably as many strokes pulled in jurisdictions where they rarely have them (Certainly, if you believe such as Andrew Beyer).
Training and preparing horses on the racecourse is endemic and institutionalised at all levels and in all grades, and while-ever authorities turn a blind eye, and instead, concentrate their efforts on those who pass information about it, will always remain so, in my view.- Total Posts 17716
I saw this thread when it started but din’t want to get involved but I would like to say excellent decision!
Even when the race was finished and Holland was pulling him up the head went up and he decided to a body swerve left. Looked as green as a cucumber and a real dodgy ride.
Is this going to become place for unhappy punters to accuse jockey’s falsly of being bent? I really hope not.
I think David should put a stop to any threads being started before an enquiry is actually called.
I’m all for discussiong an ongoing enquiry. Noting wrong with voicing opinions and debating what we think the outcome etc will be.
The danger is this could become a recipe for untrained people to start accusing jockeys of being bent when it simply isn’t the case.
In my time here 80% of all threads regarding horses being stopped have been way of the mark..
I had a one man fight with the so called experts who were acting like a lynch mob on here accusing JT of stopping the one paced L’Ami to allow Nina to win at Cheltenham. Most of them admitted they had been wrong when the same 2 met again and the got their fingers burned when L’Ami ran virtualy the same race and stopped again.
TRF Patrol full of would be steward’s spies is something the forum and the BHA can surely do without.
TAPK
Credit Swap improved his rating on both his 2nd and 3rd outings under D Holland, winning one and finishing 3rd (btn 1/2l) in the other, and was ridden in both in exactly the same mannner as when winning the Cambridgeshiire.Not quite exactly reet,otherwise
Credit Swap
would have ran in the Cambridgeshire with 2 wins and at least a 4lb penalty and i would never have got the 33/1 after his 2nd defeat in the week! He actually won the Cambridgeshire very comfortably but he could have won the other 2 just as easy if he hadn"t given the leaders a massive head start before he was asked for his effort!
A good team effort paid off in the end and ultimately made up for last year when he missed the cut! My notes stated then he had Cambridgeshire written all over him! 
Even when the race was finished and Holland was pulling him up the head went up and he decided to a body swerve left. Looked as green as a cucumber and a real dodgy ride.
Yeh,thats a sign the horse was still full of running Fist! I am not one for scrutinising non triers on a daily basis as i am well aware what goes on but on this occassion this one jumps out the screen at you! What it does show though is that it takes a
Casela Park
like incident before anythings done. I reckon there are more on here with far more knowledge of racings goings on than the stewards that are supposed to police the situation!
Is this going to become place for unhappy punters to accuse jockey’s falsly of being bent? I really hope not.
Fist, as the original poster, I can assure you that I didn’t have a penny on the horse and my observation was not in any way motivated by financial loss.
Given the recent bans handed out for the Casela Park incident and having watched racing for many years now, I thought this particular ride merited asking the forum their thoughts … if, as the stewards seem to have indicated, the horse did hang badly right despite the rider’s attempts at correction, then I guess that is the end of it from an official perspective.
People do interpret things differently and the horse’s head pulling can be read in more than one way depending what slant you want to put on it … ultimately, if Darryl Holland had only ever ridden one horse then it would be one more than me so if he says it was hanging badly right then I have to accept that was the case.
Although no future entries currently in his profile I’d be interested to see if he runs again as a three year old … at 500,000 guineas as a foal, I imagine they were hoping that his excellent middle distance pedigree might lead to more lofty heights than making up into a decent hurdler
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It was in no way meant as a personal attack on you BHL apoloigies if you thought it was. It was a balls of a race to be honest with the pace changing like it did and got to the stage where it looked like an accident waiting to happen.
As far as the horse goes I liked him to be honest. Showed more charachter than he should have which can very often be a sign of talent in a young horse. If they can holster it manage settle and relax the horse he’ll win more than his fair share of races.
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From our website:
Darryll Holland, the rider of POINT NORTH (IRE), reported that the colt hung badly right.I can confirm that they did consider a running and riding enquiry but were of the opinnion that the film bears out what jockey reported.
"The colt hung badly right" Yep it sure did. Why did the horse hang badly right? The horse hung badly right because it was being restrained beyond reasonable force,it was still being restrained as it crossed the winning line! I bet it wasn"t you who accepted the opinion that the film bears out what the jockey reported Silvoir? I hope not anyway!
Man you come straight out of a comic book. You haven’t got the faintest idea what you are talking about and should be muzzled at the earliest opportunity.
Not that anyone needed them to spot there was nothing untoward going on but here you are arguing with a group of people who have cameras up above, down below, round the corner and right up every horses jacksie and you know better.
Do yourself a favour and rearange yourself. You could start by using your head for thinking and your feet for kicking and while I’m on buy a pair of glasses before your eyesight gets any worse.
That kingdom of yours must be some place I bet they still practice burning people for witchcraft.
reet hard
This idea that handicaps are the root cause of corruption is mistaken (imo), and there are probably as many strokes pulled in jurisdictions where they rarely have them (Certainly, if you believe such as Andrew Beyer).
You maybe right but surely there are a few advantages to not allowing an horse to run to ability.
First you have the 2 year olds who are not thought able to reach listed/group company (trainer’s opinion).
Next we have the seasoned campaigner. By reducing the handicap mark, not only is there less weight to carry, but the betting could be very profitable, assuming the horse complies by not winning when it’s not supposed to, and obliging when it is.
Other preventative measures towards possible reduction of corruption could be:
Trainers give written riding instuctions to jockeys and stewards.
Apprentices/conditionals are more closely monitored. It might be an idea for them to be placed with suitable trainers for a limited time, and then moved on periodically to gain further experience elsewhere.
I also believe it should be mandatory for all winning horses to be tested for medication.- Total Posts 17716
A member of the BHA’s integrity team informed me this morning that one of their betting investigators is currently looking in to the race, although I must stress that they didn’t state whether this was simply procedural or if there was something specific that had given them cause for concern.
A more comprehensive response is expected by the end of the month.
Man you come straight out of a comic book. You haven’t got the faintest idea what you are talking about and should be muzzled at the earliest opportunity.
Not that anyone needed them to spot there was nothing untoward going on but here you are arguing with a group of people who have cameras up above, down below, round the corner and right up every horses jacksie and you know better.
Do yourself a favour and rearange yourself. You could start by using your head for thinking and your feet for kicking and while I’m on buy a pair of glasses before your eyesight gets any worse.
That kingdom of yours must be some place I bet they still practice burning people for witchcraft.
I could have your head off for such remarks but you are my court Jester and nobody makes me laugh so much as you! Another passionate post soldier,keep it up!
I had a one man fight with the so called experts who were acting like a lynch mob on here accusing JT of stopping the one paced L’Ami to allow Nina to win at Cheltenham.
One of the more feisty exchanges on here in recent memory, certainly;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjMZvUmuoLg
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
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Runs again in maiden company at Nottingham (4.50) tomorrow having failed to secure a handicap mark with his ‘eyecatching’ Windsor performance.
Darryl Holland, who is booked to ride in the 1.30 and 3.05, won’t be aboard.
Runs again in maiden company at Nottingham (4.50) tomorrow having failed to secure a handicap mark with his ‘eyecatching’ Windsor performance.
Darryl Holland, who is booked to ride in the 1.30 and 3.05, won’t be aboard.
No i bet he wont! I wonder what William Buick will say when the stewards ask about
Point Norths
improved performance after he wins!
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