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Andy , you must also be ancient if you remember Darky raiding ascot for big prizes, I do also
Max a very fair post ,its about envy and begrudging
Can we get over it and move on , the Journos and the media backed by the bookies have had their say and they have been satisfied
meanwhile racing hangs its head in shame , the tail is wagging the dog
Ricky
Slightly off-topic but an excellent post from the Irish section of the BF forum on Coolmore.
The Gotchee 27 Sep 00:53
… (Coolmore) have their men on every board and committee associated with horse racing in Ireland. Subtle changes have been made within horse racing which when studied carefully show how they have reaped huge rewards. For example the amount of black type races in Ireland has crept up to an amazing 11% of all races. Meanwhile France, USA, GB and Germany average about 5.5% .The prize money in other countries is distributed much fairer.Year on year lower rated horses in Ireland are being removed from the game because HRI keep raising the minimum rating . This has resulted in pushing out a lot of ordinary owners and small trainers from the game.The Curragh is being revamped at a cost of 120+ million most of which is tax payers money(a venue that reaches full capacity once a year) for a few tax exiles. 20,000+ horses were ballotted out last year yet half of what is being spent on the Curragh could have built 2 new tracks and everybody could be catered for.They have also benefited greatly in the breeding industry with tax exemptions etc. I could go on all night.Some very interesting points raised there.
I could not agree more with David’s post.I also feel that Coolmore might have matched the Aga Khan’s contribution to rebuilding the Curragh.Maybe when you start with little you are more careful of parting.Since their operation was tax free I always felt they should have contributed at least two services(or maybe more) a year to all their studs to the the Irish National Stud as a small payback.
But their non effort pales in comparison to a well known operation with its home beside the racecourse who objected to giving planning permission for a road to be built.A much needed road I might say but he delayed the building of the new stands at the track for over four years.Sometimes doing nothing is better than negative helping!Getting out of the way was the way forward for Irish racing but this operation remained in the way intentionally.
Then upon reflection if Coolmore had played a bigger part and sponsored the Classic that would have drawn more fire on them like the article above.However I do agree completely about the group races and the effort to keep small owners and average horses away from the big name tracks.
Kudos to Jim Bolger who pulled himself up from the depths in which he found himself some years ago.Also to Jimmy Martin for Dundalk.I could not agree more with David’s post.I also feel that Coolmore might have matched the Aga Khan’s contribution to rebuilding the Curragh.Maybe when you start with little you are more careful of parting.Since their operation was tax free I always felt they should have contributed at least two services(or maybe more) a year to all their studs to the the Irish National Stud as a small payback.
But their non effort pales in comparison to a well known operation with its home beside the racecourse who objected to giving planning permission for a road to be built.A much needed road I might say but he delayed the building of the new stands at the track for over four years.Sometimes doing nothing is better than negative helping!Getting out of the way was the way forward for Irish racing but this operation remained in the way intentionally.
Then upon reflection if Coolmore had played a bigger part and sponsored the Classic that would have drawn more fire on them like the article above.However I do agree completely about the group races and the effort to keep small owners and average horses away from the big name tracks.
Kudos to Jim Bolger who pulled himself up from the depths in which he found himself some years ago.Also to Jimmy Martin for Dundalk.A) Coolmore paid nothing towards the Curragh redevelopement…and its not the sort of thing you can do without it being found out. The Aga Khan bought and gave The Stand House Hotel (located behind the old racecourse) to The Curragh..a significant contribution but thats it- nothing more regarding stand etc.
B) Every stud had tax free on stallion income…should Darley, Derrinstowns etc have contributed as well? Why on earth should they?
C) The HRI measures do not keep small owners or average horses out of the big name tracks. It keeps the poor horses out of every race meeting, or at least tries to.
In return for the tax free pot of gold provided by the Irish Government.Why give back something.Aidan I cannot enlighten you on the concept of reciprocity.A concept foreign to most super wealthy ones.
As for keeping poor horses out of the tracks.The question of poor horses is relative.What is a poor horse to Coolmore may be a good horse to a small owner.But again one must see through the eyes of the small owner to grasp that concept.I have seen a small (i.e. Not Rich)owner struggle to get a horse handicapped when most races for such horses are also for apprentices.While struggling to get handicapped training fees etc. must still be paid.I wish those who say poor horses could stand up at the sales and make the decision before the small owner had to pay and pay to find out.It would be a more helpful prognosis than handicapping so many off the track and out of the sport they love.
Poor horses should be kept off the track? Any chance the sellers of poor horses would give the money back to the buyers and take their poor horses someplace else to dispose of them?Maybe Goffs or Tattersalls would be kind enough to forbid the sale of poor horses(like the Green Monkey) for instanced!
Most people cannot afford the entry cost for themselves to get in to the Curragh never mind the cost of racing their cheap and poor horses.
The Kings are determined to keep the riffraff out of their Kingdom.In return for the tax free pot of gold provided by the Irish Government.Why give back something.Aidan I cannot enlighten you on the concept of reciprocity.A concept foreign to most super wealthy ones.
As for keeping poor horses out of the tracks.The question of poor horses is relative.What is a poor horse to Coolmore may be a good horse to a small owner.But again one must see through the eyes of the small owner to grasp that concept.I have seen a small (i.e. Not Rich)owner struggle to get a horse handicapped when most races for such horses are also for apprentices.While struggling to get handicapped training fees etc. must still be paid.I wish those who say poor horses could stand up at the sales and make the decision before the small owner had to pay and pay to find out.It would be a more helpful prognosis than handicapping so many off the track and out of the sport they love.
Poor horses should be kept off the track? Any chance the sellers of poor horses would give the money back to the buyers and take their poor horses someplace else to dispose of them?Maybe Goffs or Tattersalls would be kind enough to forbid the sale of poor horses(like the Green Monkey) for instanced!
Most people cannot afford the entry cost for themselves to get in to the Curragh never mind the cost of racing their cheap and poor horses.
The Kings are determined to keep the riffraff out of their Kingdom.What in Gods name are you ranting about…the minimum rating in Ireland is current 42, going up to 45…that is a poor horse!! Weither you are Coolmore or a small owner (as you put it) 42-45 is a lowly rated horse and the production for racing purposes of these animals should not be encouraged IMO. You are also talking out of your hat regarding the apprentice races….most of the 45-60 rated handicaps are for apprentices in Ireland….are you seriously for real? Have you ever read the balloting rules in Ireland?
The Irish National Stud also had tax exemptions….should Irish companys that have the lowest corporation taxes in the world give the government run agencies freebies too? And of course Coolmore and every other stud did of course pay taxes on everything else. Just a bizarre idea and a bizarre posting.
Relax Aidan.Just because Henry got stuffed is no reason to go bonkers.How do you know in advance that you are producing a dud?Green Monkey Green Monkey, green monkey. Have you gotten the picture or have you ever invested in a horse?Peter O’Sullivan was an owner for twenty years before he could afford to get out of the horses that should not be allowed to grace your group 1 tracks and into a horse that actually won a race.And you think I am bonkers ! Welcome to the world of Peter O’Sullivan.
As the man said"Are you going to believe your own eyes or what the guy selling his story tells you"
Sorry I have not the energy to read the polite way the Rule Book tells the small man to get lost.Relax Aidan.Just because Henry got stuffed is no reason to go bonkers.How do you know in advance that you are producing a dud?Green Monkey Green Monkey, green monkey. Have you gotten the picture or have you ever invested in a horse?Peter O’Sullivan was an owner for twenty years before he could afford to get out of the horses that should not be allowed to grace your group 1 tracks and into a horse that actually won a race.And you think I am bonkers ! Welcome to the world of Peter O’Sullivan.
As the man said"Are you going to believe your own eyes or what the guy selling his story tells you"
Sorry I have not the energy to read the polite way the Rule Book tells the small man to get lost.Err…a horse can run in a maiden, it has three runs before it gets its handicap mark…if its not good enough then it will get removed from the system…breed what you like if you want but after you maiden runs if you are not good enough then your out of it.
Will you rant about Coolmore paying for new racetracks…free stallion nominations etc.
Wish you would answer my question-
a) Have you ever read the ballot rules?
b) Do you know who actually makes these decisions in Ireland?No although the trainer said they were "in on the kitchen table if i wanted to read how the deck was stacked". The first time the horse ran he sweated up in the ring because he had never seen so many horses or people since the day he was sold.He started late and was tailed off.Twice after that he finished in the first third of an 18 horse field.Apparently he should have done better although 12 horses finished behind him on both occasions.(Shall I continue about the jockey who told us to go chasing and the trainer who told us to go to the knacker and the trainer who had to buy hay for wealthy owners the day my horse was running?Finally a trainer agreed to train the horse for half price and half interest and the horse won twice)So I didn’t see the point of reading what a useless horse he was in the eyes of the wise and wealthy.So we went hurdling after that with him.But I bore you with the stories of the people who keep race tracks open and lunch counters crowded at country meetings.And the small syndicates who bring as many people in to the races as Aidan’s staff.But they all have to pay because small people have big syndicates and big people small ones.As for who makes the decisions.I suppose whoever pays the piper.
So the answer is no and no.Now you answer my questions.No although the trainer said they were "in on the kitchen table if i wanted to read how the deck was stacked". The first time the horse ran he sweated up in the ring because he had never seen so many horses or people since the day he was sold.He started late and was tailed off.Twice after that he finished in the first third of an 18 horse field.Apparently he should have done better although 12 horses finished behind him on both occasions.(Shall I continue about the jockey who told us to go chasing and the trainer who told us to go to the knacker and the trainer who had to buy hay for wealthy owners the day my horse was running?Finally a trainer agreed to train the horse for half price and half interest and the horse won twice)So I didn’t see the point of reading what a useless horse he was in the eyes of the wise and wealthy.So we went hurdling after that with him.But I bore you with the stories of the people who keep race tracks open and lunch counters crowded at country meetings.And the small syndicates who bring as many people in to the races as Aidan’s staff.But they all have to pay because small people have big syndicates and big people small ones.As for who makes the decisions.I suppose whoever pays the piper.
So the answer is no and no.Now you answer my questions.Have a go reading them…it will help you get your horse in races. If your horse did indeed finish 3rd in his last two runs he would be qualified for a handicap mark…what mark did he get? He would also be one of the first horses to be eligible to get into maidens….so like I said…read the actual rules!
I do not know what your questions are!
Aidan I said he finished in the first third of the field.Not third.The whole sad episode happened some six years ago do the horse was bought about ten years ago as a foal.(all I could afford at the time) Now with the lower prices I may be able to get into another poor mans horse and take my chance that it will be told to get lost after a couple of runs on the flat. However I do love the NH racing so that is where I will go with him.But to get back to what we were talking about I do believe there is an argument from the other side(mine) worth listening to.It is not all bullcrap. The breeders and the sellers make a living from those poor horses.The small man gets to eat the losses.Except for the Green Monkey!
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