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David .How about a Group 1 from Italy compared to a Group 1 from France,England or Ireland? At that level people read the Black Type.We are not talking NH.Example .What won the most recent Italian Classic? No researching please.Worse still what won the most recent English classic?
David .How about a Group 1 from Italy compared to a Group 1 from France,England or Ireland? At that level people read the Black Type.We are not talking NH.Example .What won the most recent Italian Classic? No researching please.Worse still what won the most recent English classic?
But that’s my point.
Do you think Coolmore are going to send their top racehorses to Italy to run in the Italian Derby instead of at Epsom. Not a chance in hell of that happening.
Coolmore will never, never, never, ever boycott English racing.
Qadrilla is of course quite right to say that the Newmarket stewards did hold an enquiry into the interference caused by RRC. My fault for creating the wrong impression, I meant should have held an enqury into team tactics.
But I do take issue with suggestions that anyone who dares critise Coolmore is either anti-Irish or has some kind of overriding dislike of Coolmore. In my case, neither applies.
I just believe that the rules of racing should be applied to everyone, regardless of how wealthy they are or how poweful they are in the bloodstock market. In this instance the powers that be had obviously decided, initially at least, that they would not apply the rules of to Coolmore in respect of team tactics. As subsequent posters have pointed out, that dereliction of duty seriously diminishes the HRA
If they won’t apply the rules to Coolmore unless the press – and I would suggest a groundswell of opinion from people who take a serious interest in racing as well as professionals – force them into it, then they don’t have the moral authority to apply them to anyone. That way lies anarchy.
richard
How about legal authority. If a pacemaker improves the chance of his stable mate by being a pace maker he breaks the law.Plain and simple.As the law stands a pacemaker is illegal.Lets put it out front and center.
Andyod,
Allow me to rebut your er, interesting posts – though I do so with heavy heart; (you usually entertain me with your short-circuited, stoned English and the fact you only ever post about Ballydoyle).
Godolphin is but one stable, the international arm of a wider Dubai project. The Maktoum brothers have more horses in training in the UK than they have anywhere else in the world. Sheikh Mohammed, his wife and his sons have approaching 750 horses in training here. His brother, Sheikh Hamdan, has over 350; Sheikh Ahmed about 200. Close associates of the Maktoums have probably another 250.
The Saudi prince, Khalid Abdullah, has around 250 horses in training in the UK – though he does have more trained in France nowadays, granted.
Hardly the actions of passengers leaving a sinking ship, Andy.
As for the Aga Khan, he left English racing after the Aliysa affair and shortly after his close friend (Coolmore founder), Robert Sangster died. His father, the Aly Khan, was an Anglophile and colossal gambler interested in fixed odds betting. His son, a Francophile, has other priorities. Its not surprising he concentrates his efforts elsewhere, though it is disappointing.
The prize money in the UK is largely irrelevant at this level; there are other reasons to race here. When I was at the Curragh for the Irish St Leger, I expected to see AOB in the paddock. I did see him, only he was on the ATR screens saddling Frozen Fire at Doncaster.
Hell will freeze over before Coolmore stop racing in the UK. Sorry to disappoint you.
Back in the late nineties people were moaning and groaning about Godolphin winning everything. The norm by October was polite applause around ill-attended winners’ enclosures after the big races at Ascot and Newmarket.
No-one is griping and whispering about Coolmore, Andyod. They are griping and whispering about monopoly. It doesn’t go down well in these here parts; monopoly just isn’t in the DNA. I’d mention Steve Davies as an example, but you’d be lost.
Hope this helps. Roll on Big Brown huh, just up the road?
On the subject of pacemakers and them being illegal. If that is the case then the rules must have changed since 1975 when the so called "Race of the Century" took place (imo it was the ’64 Cheltemham Gold Cup but that is for another debate).
On that day Kinglet and Highest- two complete no hopers- were in the race for one reason alone. Pacemakers. Their job to ensure that a flat out gallop was maintained as long as possible for their illustrious stable companion, Bustino. All three ran in Lady Beaverbrook’s colours and it almost came off.
Now if we look at that race in the context of this debate, then not only were pacemakers employed, but it could be argued that team tactics were also involved. I have never heard anyone question the tactics used that afternoon (and I am not saying they were wrong to do what they did).
So where is the problem with what Ballydoyle did or have been doing. I agree with Paul, this is the politics of envy.
Thanks for your thoughtful and considerate response .Am I to understand that it is not winning but winning too much that is the problem?Seems that Godolfin have lots more horses but since they don’t win it is OK. Some sort of perverse logic, like my stoned English, I gather.I try to post on any slight perceived or real to the bog trotters.I like to support the underdog
"against the government"we call it.As for posting about Ballydoyle I do have some ambiguous and contrary ideas about horses trained by Dermot,I don’t favor his run and hide approach.I am old enough to remember the way Darkie Prendergast was treated by the Establishment of racing when he started to win too many races in England.But I speak of what I know and that is rather curtailed by my long residence in Sacramento.Enough said.Just like Michael Schumacher in F1, Tiger Woods in golf, Roger Federer in tennis, Kilkenny in hurling, nobody likes to see one team/person win everything. Sport is predominantly about competition and without competitive competition sport is boring.
Ask people what their favourite races are and invariably they will be close races involving long battles down a home straight with a tight finish a la the Tingle Creek of 2004 (what a race!) as opposed to Hawk Wing in the Lockinge type victories.
Just had another look at that Tingle Creek and still get goosebumps four years later when the crowd roars as Moscow Flyer jumps past Cenkos four out.
If anyone wants a copy of it (it’s a bit grainy cos it looks like it’s been recorded off the telly with a mobile phone) just PM me.
The point of my original post was to point out what a pathetic waste of time the fines were.
Team tactics have always been around and always will be, but when there is a flagrant abuse of the rules then the fine must fit the crime.
There is much talk in the press about AOB openess with the press and we will all be worse without it if he gets upset to much about way the press prtray him personally I cannot see it makes a dot of difference if he talks to the press or not.
The vast majority of trainers tell nothing to the press and it does not change racing one bit.
I like team tactics in a top class race provided there is no interference towards another horse/jockey.
Better than all the other stuff that goes on lower down the scale.Andy, apologies for the stoned English comment. That was unfair of me and it doesn’t look good written down. I’d just watched a DVD of "Fritz the Cat".
Yes, as DB says, as long as Godolphin win a few – along with Coolmore, Cheveley Park, Prince Khalid, The Wertheimer brothers, Smith and Pye-Jeary and the syndicate of a thousand fenlanders, we will consider it all a splendid season.
Steve Davies won ten snooker world championships on the trot and everyone hated him (except big staking punters who called him The Nugget). For the latter part of his career, he couldn’t pot two ballls in a row and everyone loved him. It’s this point James Willoughby (not for the first time), scoops over the bar from five yards out.
I have no comment to make on the fine, no idea. Never argue with a ref.
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