Home › Forums › Big Races – Discussion › Oaks 2023
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Gingertipster.
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- June 2, 2023 at 22:06 #1650006
Folly to draw any conclusions in comparing fully developed older horses to a still developing 3 yr old filly in June based on race times and sectionals.
For instance, comparing both horses winning times in the Musidora (both on officially good ground) shows that Soul Sister’s overall time was 0.75s faster and her final 3F were 3.53s faster. Every horse in Soul Sister’s race ran the last 3F faster than Emily did in hers…..so do we conclude that at that respective stages of their 3 yr old careers that Soul Sister is better?
It may well end up being that Emily is simply a better horse than Soul Sister but she potentially has even more improvement to come through her 3 year old career and possibly more from 3 to 4 just as Emily has clearly shown herself.
June 2, 2023 at 22:10 #1650007First, second and seventh furlongs of the Oaks the only ones faster than Corry Cup.
But you would expect the Corry Cup to be run quite a bit faster than the Oaks because…
Three year olds at the beginning of June would be getting quite a bit of weight from older fillies if running in the same race. However, Emily Upjohn carried 8 st 13 lbs in the Corry Cup. The 3 year olds actually carried 3 lbs more at 9 st 2 lbs.
Three year old fillies would also be getting a sex allowance as well as age; yet the 4yo+ Corry Cup colts carried the same weight as the 3 year old Oaks fillies.That said, Emily Upjohn and Westover are currently quite a bit better horses than Soul Sister and Savethelastdance.
Value Is EverythingJune 2, 2023 at 22:41 #1650011Those weights carried in those two respective races when compared are just so strange especially when you consider in the Eclipse 4yr old Colts/Geldings carry 9st 9lbs – 4 yr old fillies carry 9st 6lbs whilst 3 yr old fillies carry 8st 10lbs
June 2, 2023 at 23:13 #1650016Looking at the sectionals caernarfon has to be put in the tracker
She covered furlongs 8 to 10 faster than soul sister before fading badly
She runs over 10f next time she has to be of interest
Given connections you may get a good price as well
June 2, 2023 at 23:24 #1650022Connections said afterwards they’ll go for the Daiane with Caernarfon.
Value Is EverythingJune 2, 2023 at 23:26 #1650023Did we see a St Leger filly in Savethelastdance?
Value Is EverythingJune 2, 2023 at 23:35 #1650026She will be worth an e/w bet if they do go to the Diane
And yes I’d say savethelastdance would relish a step up, especially on decent ground
June 3, 2023 at 00:52 #1650067I”ll definitely be on Caernarfon wherever she runs a solid EW bet and more to come but she’ll be single figures now. One to look forward to this season.
So impressive how the 3 leaders pulled clear of the field.
I really enjoyed that race, apart from my Running Lion kicking her stall open and getting loose.
she’s back to a more appropriate distance next race so hoping she’ll win in France.
JacThings turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...June 3, 2023 at 01:09 #1650070Bloody Bet365 must have had an inkling, they did a special
on their site just before the off….. Savethelastdance 6/4.
I thought, I can’t let that go. Wish I had been on Paddy Power’s
site
June 3, 2023 at 01:45 #1650076Always a red flag when they do a boost like that
They do it on selections the traders believe are way too short and try to suck people in
Best to back it then lay off the stake on the exchange so you can’t lose either way
June 3, 2023 at 07:44 #1650093I think Rowlands has said on twitter the first 4F for the Oaks was too fast but they got into the straight about the same time, Emily Upjohn and Westover’s 3-2F split were especially fast against historical standards.
Weight for age is 15lbs at this point of June over 12F so it is a good point about the 18lb swing
that would account for 12 of the lengths which would at least have Soul Sister finishing 3rd in the Coro Cup on crude times. Given the context of what Rowlands said about the splits Emily Upjohn and Westover put in late and the faster than ideal first 4f in the Oaks it does more respectable for Soul Sister et al.FWIW historical times
Hukum was around 8.5L quicker than Tuesday
Pyledriver around 2.5L quicker than Snowfall
Defoe 13L quicker than AnapurnaDidn’t go back any further probably not much point as the Oaks is obviously expected to be slower than the CC as others have pointed out although it is still a fair chunk slower, I think if memory serves correct it rained for the Snowfall year so her time was good against Pyledriver as it would be making the ground worse as the day went on.
June 3, 2023 at 07:49 #1650094“Always a red flag when they do a boost like that”
Old head, young shoulders – 100%.
It invariably means they can’t lay it/don’t fancy it/expect it to drift – plenty of price boosts end up at a bigger SP than the “special offer” and at an even bigger Betfair Exchange SP.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"June 3, 2023 at 07:58 #1650097‘Always a red flag when they do a boost like that”
I think one of the bookies did a price boost on Little Big Bear in the sprint race the other day. It doesn’t always work out for them bookies :o)
Can’t blame BigG for having a go, the horse wasn’t exactly finishing his race at the back of the telly.June 3, 2023 at 08:24 #1650107No one said it always works out for the bookies, but it’s often a “tell.”
And no one, least of all me, is blaming BigG for having a go – he’s too big for a start! – but Emily Upjohn’s 1.42 seconds faster than standard time earlier told me everything I needed to know about the ground, as I said here at the time.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"June 3, 2023 at 08:42 #1650115If i fancied a horse that was 6-4 and was offered at,say, 2-1 I’d happily take it. I know I’ve taken price boosts off of short/shortish favourites like that in the past that have won so it doesn’t bother me as being some sort of bad sign.
June 3, 2023 at 08:43 #1650116Fair enough, Mike.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"June 3, 2023 at 13:29 #1650202“Price boosts” shouldn’t really be allowed.
They’re there to help keep punters loyal to the brand and only available to some punters.
First restrictions a punter gets from a bookmaker is often a notice saying any price boost advertised is not available to you and if taken in error will not be paid.Value Is Everything - AuthorPosts
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