June 8, 2005 at 19:13 #3971
A hush has fallen Europe wide amongst the suited armies of unelected busy bodies and scrougers as the European Gravy Train stutters to a laughable halt.
Two of the founder members and proper countries in the EU have given them the two fingered salute and said .. NO !
It appears that the French said NON because they don’t want to see their manufacturing jobs shipped overseas, particularly to China. Where semi-skilled workers are replaced en-masse by children and political prisoners.
The Dutch voted Nee because they are a bit dis-illusioned with being swallowed up by Germany and having their small but unique identity lost.
The Germans are secretly talking about pulling out of the Euro as they see it as their only way to pull their economy out of it’s current downward spiral. The Germans themselves do not like the Euro and preferred the DM.
We apparently are not going to get the chance to vote on the constitution now because we are not smart enough to make the right decision. We also won’t be joining the Euro for at least 5 years.
How can Europe be fixed? Can or do we want to join in and why should we? Why is European Globalisation good and American Globalisation bad?June 8, 2005 at 20:00 #91848
It’s amazing how quickly society starts to regard something as "normal" when it really hasn’t been around that long.
The EU was a fad. Pure and simple.
It was a bull market phenomenon. The bull market that started around the end of WW2 ended about 5 years ago and, unsurprisingly, the EU has started to show cracks.
We had the inclusionist, "we’re all part of one big europe", during the 90’s and early part of the 2000’s.
But, as the economy worsens, we see the typical responses of exclusionism: a rise in national identity coupled with a willingness to blame neighbouring countries for the economic slide.
It’s no surprise that the Germans and Italians are making noises about leaving the Euro.
I’d bet dollars to doughnuts that someone will walk out of that within the next 3 years.
It probably won’t help their economy any, but they’ll still do it.
Then countries will start objecting to various EU laws (I’d guess freedom of movement will be the focus of much of the disatisfaction), and that’ll lead to countries leaving the EU.
How can Europe be fixed?
What’s to fix? We participated in a trend (being in the EU) and once the trend reaches its conclusion, we’ll do something else.
At least we in the UK are lucky we never went as far as getting in the Euro, so things should be easier for us in that way.
SteveJune 11, 2005 at 12:06 #91849
My God Steve .. you reckon it’s a dead duck .. ?June 19, 2005 at 12:58 #91850
I think we’ve been seeing more signs of the unravelling this week.
We’ve seen the desire to renegotiate agreements that have been in place for decades.
Some countries want to pay less, others want to receive more.
And everyone wants to hold onto whatever he’s already receiving.
What’s not being addressed is the divergence between the ideas of the politicians and the feelings of the electorate.
After the "no" votes, that’s what the pro-EU politicians should be doing.
However, with the financial downturn, the same politicians have to be seen to be "getting tough" with the EU budget.
With everyone doing this at the same time, is anyone going to concede?
SteveJune 21, 2005 at 11:57 #91851
Steve, this whole episode reminds me of the ‘Chicken Run’ that the Tory MP’s did when it became obvious that they were going to lose to Labour, first time around. They ran around the country trying to find safe seats to defend and keep their snouts in the trough even though they knew they would be shortly out of power.
Each of the so called Leaders know that if they concede any ground or press ahead with this unwanted project that they will be off the gravy train at home, the next time the electorate get a chance to vote them out.June 22, 2005 at 00:02 #91853SkyMember
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Interesting topic and clearly topical , a subject that concerns Sky strongly.<br>A matter of dollers to doughnuts to fail .. well maybe <br>Clearly with the amount of countries involved their will always be problems … the diffuculty resisdes perhaps with the additional members due to join , it will clearly beget problems , financially and policitaly<br>Its a tough question what will be correct and what will not be.. shall Europe change or shall they not <br>Shall they revert to indivual currencies and goverment<br>Whos to say<br>For Skys part he agrees with the idea and the current ideals of the EU and the Euro as a blanket currency
But on the same vein Sky feels that Briton has been wise to satnd alone..but will they be left alone in the future , today the Sterling is strong … but a years time<br> <br>If I was a betting man …I feel it is just a pimple on the face of the Euro and the currency and the ideals will survive and prosper
Skybroker<br>July 29, 2005 at 08:30 #91854
Further news on the Euro:
Berlusconi says Prodi ‘conned’ Italians over euro
Silvio Berlusconi, Italy’s prime minister, yesterday blamed the nation’s economic difficulties on the euro and on the way that Romano Prodi, his political arch-rival, steered Italy into Europe’s monetary union.<br> <br>"Prodi’s euro conned us all," Mr Berlusconi told a meeting of his Forza Italia party. He said there were Italians who had "difficulties because of the incursion of Prodi’s euro".
Mr Berlusconi made his remarks less than two months after three government ministers from the Northern League, a populist party, launched a campaign to bring back the lira, Italy’s currency before the euro.
Mr Berlusconi has not lent support to that campaign, which no other government party backs. But his comments at yesterday’s political event suggested he would use the issue of the euro as a weapon against Mr Prodi in Italy’s forthcoming national elections, due by next May.
And from a similar article in the Independent:
"In June, Italy’s Labour minister, from the Northern League, called for a referendum on whether Italy should temporarily pull out of the euro and reintroduce the lira – an idea that European officials dismissed.
A Northern League group is working on getting a referendum in conjunction with the general election, scheduled for spring. Mr Page said the chances of that happening were quite high, as only 500,000 signatories are needed for a petition to call a national referendum. "That would create a lot of uncertainty, which would hurt the euro," he said."
Just as I said, the Euro and the EU are going to be the scapegoats when the economy is going badly. And some parties will campaign on a "leave the Euro/EU" manifesto.
SteveDecember 10, 2006 at 20:10 #4356
Whatever happened to The Euro ??
Europhiles Blair and Brown are determined to join this charade, what’s happened? have they changed their minds and have all of the other traitors who want it, for this great country of ours gone away?December 11, 2006 at 19:51 #103906insomniacParticipant
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The Euro and the EU are unpopular with a great many (perhaps a majority) of the people of all classes. So why are the Tories so loathe to even discuss it ?<br>I hope the Euro goes ar*e over tit, but if it did, I can’t help thinking we’d end up baling the daft bugg*rs out.December 12, 2006 at 21:37 #103907
Yes, it looks like all of the treacherous Europhiles have gone off and died.December 12, 2006 at 22:09 #103908Lovely LadyMember
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I agree that we don’t hear too much about it these days for some reason, terrorism and the Middle East perhaps ? Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â more pressing ?
However we are not all Eurosceptics [actually, what happened to them??].
I am strongly in favour of the European Community, ECHR, Union, Euro, massive immigration and integration and the free flow of people around the community. Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â What amuses me a little is that people who moan about all this, never once stop to question the massive impact the U.S has had on our language, work, culture, never mind the appalling food !! Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â over the last 50 years, it’s as if all that is just taken for granted. Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
Yes, I’m a European and I like Europe. Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â I don’t see that as unpatriotic at all, some of our relatives are dead and buried over there yet with this cohesion hopefully that won’t happen again for a very long time.
Not making any apology Dave – sorry. Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â Now if you’re talking about Russian and Arab takeovers of certain football clubs – now that’s what I call unpatriotic – a sell out and complete DISGRACE !!!!! :biggrin: <br>December 13, 2006 at 07:59 #103909Andrew HughesMember
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The trouble with Europe is there are too many English people there. In some parts of Tuscany there are more retired English teachers and architects than olive trees.
I like the Euro because I think its pretty.December 13, 2006 at 09:17 #103910graysonscolumnParticipant
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Agree with all of Lovely Lady’s points without reservation.<br>
The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.December 13, 2006 at 10:25 #103911SwallowCottageMember
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I think the reason that the Euro is not promoted as much as was is because the pound has been strong since it was launched. I remember a lot of so called experts stating that the economy of this country would collapse if we didn’t join it within 3 years of it’s launch but we have done fine without it so far:) Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â and it’s the dollar that is struggling at the moment.
I don’t agree with Lovely ladys outlook on Europe. I don’t want massive immigration and integration and the free flow of people around the european community. I want each country to retain it’s own culture and I see a danger that Europe will become in effect one country – similar to the USA with it’s different states.
I don’t want all the countries in Europe to end up having the same laws, same language ( probably english ) and driving on the same side of the road ( right ) and using the same currency etc,etc,etc. I just think it’s very boring and all the ‘countries’ will become european states and be very similar to each other.
One other point – England in my opinion has an american culture and not a european one. We have copied the USA so much that I often think we have become another one of their states.Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
(Edited by SwallowCottage at 10:40 am on Dec. 13, 2006)<br>
(Edited by SwallowCottage at 1:59 pm on Dec. 13, 2006)December 13, 2006 at 12:36 #103912
To want to surrender our democratic institutions and our politicians (warts and all) with unelected foriegners is treason, imo.
The reason all of the Europhiles are hiding under the bed is because the Euro has finally been shown up for the ripping off scam that it is.
I have a distant relative buried in North Africa somewhere .. in Libya I think, Tobruk?
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