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from another of my fellow Aussie’s;
Peter Siddle and Paul Collingwood – same gene pool (northern England) yet a a couple of generations in the sun and one’s a wood-chopping champion, fast bowling axe, the other remains a little weiner.
As far back as WW1 when we sent over our diggers to help out the poms, they recognised Aussies as being physically superior specimens. This had occurred in an extremely short time frame (only two or three generations since European migration to Aus had really taken off) and the gene pools were almost identical at this stage. If this Johnston tool thinks genes are the be-all and end-all as to the physcial conformation of any beast, I would suggest that he living proof that siblings shouldn’t root.
and wait there’s more…………..
Scenic might have been considered a National Hunt stallion in the UK, however, Scenic won the Dewhurst Stakes,UK’s self proclaimed equivalent to our Golden Slipper, and of the 57 Stakeswinners he has produced in Australia 37 of them won stakes races at distances of 1600m or less! It probably doesnt matter what stallion you use in the UK because with their farcical style of racing you only have sprint home the last 600m. Dont forget a Rory’s Jester horse won over two miles in the UK!
I note with great interest an article on the RP site yesterday about the ex-Johnston horse Steady As A Rock who’s sweeping all before him in Hungary – even as relatively poor quality racing (when compared to the UK) Johnston should have got more out of the horse. He also sold a German Derby winner a few years ago too.
Is it possible for the British public to comprehend that after being beaten in Japan, beaten by Aussie sprinters, US 2yos, our turf horses doing really really well in the US on artificial surfaces than some of our supposed "top trainers" aren’t half as good as they make out?
Would just like to say,
When we (Aussies) prepare our horses, we don’t train them to be plugging staying types, we prepare them to be fresh and explosive sprinting types.
We feed them high grain diets, and would be lucky to exercise them with a saddle on for longer then 10 minutes, a lot of the newer breed trainers, swim their horses a lot, and also walk them a lot.
When we gallop a horse being prepared for sprints races, they will only normally gallop over 2 – 3 furlong.
If we worked them any differently, and fed them any differently, then our horses would look a lot more differently.
We have some of the strictest drug testing procedures in the world, and can not use steroids with out being caught, so to say that is the reason our horses look the way they do, is an absolute crock
Be nice if Mark Johnston, being as educated as some of you think he is, had of done his research, before tainting our industry
p.s.
Also the Steroid that Joe Janiak got caught using was a water based steroid, that was banned over 18 months ago from use in our country, and did not offer any of the performance enhancing attributes of the oil based typeThis has been discussed in our part of the world
http://www.racehorsetalk.com.au/index.p … replies=67
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When we (Aussies) prepare our horses, we don’t train them to be plugging staying types, we prepare them to be fresh and explosive sprinting types….
We have some of the strictest drug testing procedures in the world, and can not use steroids with out being caught, so to say that is the reason our horses look the way they do, is an absolute crock….
Also the Steroid that Joe Janiak got caught using was a water based steroid, that was banned over 18 months ago from use in our country, and did not offer any of the performance enhancing attributes of the oil based type…
Isn’t there a contradiction here? The essence of the drug dispensers (whatever the sport) is that they are masterly at keeping one step
ahead
of the drug testers. Occasionally they get caught, of course (c.f. your own example) when the testers aren’t quite as far back as they were thought to be.
But, unfortunately for your argument, it’s impossible to prove a negative: just because they aren’t caught doesn’t mean they aren’t using something!
And the point Mr Mark Johnston has made, to be fair, is that
prior
use of steroids (even when thoroughly out of the horse’s system) has a long term effect on musculature and constitution.
Coming back to Europe, I am tempted to muse as to whether a certain, popular "great Hungarian sprinter" might be all too aptly named – but I won’t!
Isn’t there a contradiction here?
And the point Mr Mark Johnson has made, to be fair, is that
prior
use of steroids (even when thoroughly out of the horse’s system) has a long term effect on musculature and constitution.
No way, if Mark Johstone is implying that, then he is terrible at his trade.
The only steroid that we could use was the water based steroid, that has no impact what so ever on a horses physique or performance, and it was banned over 18 months ago, the oil based ones, have been outlawed a lot longer then what Scenic Blast and Takeover Target have been around.
Do you remember Ben Johnston, broke a world record on steroids, when he was off them, he couldn’t run to save himself, where is this benefit from prior use ?
With our testing procedures and the way our horses are prepared, there is NO way our horses could have been treated with Steroids during their racing carreers and not have returned a positive.
I have no doubt we have cheats in our industry, just the same as you do in yours …. we have positives for milk shakes, the same as you lot do, that doesn’t make you any better then us, in regards to drug cheats ……. but keep in mind, that milk shakes benefit your style of racing more then ours, so maybe some people shouldn’t throw stones in glass houses
So just for the record, Scenic Blast could not have been on Steroids, so maybe it is your trainers that are the problem
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No way, if Mark Johstone is implying that, then he is terrible at his trade.
The only steroid that we could use was the water based steroid, that has no impact what so ever on a horses physique or performance, and it was banned over 18 months ago, the oil based ones, have been outlawed a lot longer then what Scenic Blast and Takeover Target have been around.
Mr Johnston is of course (but as you may not know) a qualified vet, and does know what he’s takling about when it comes to musculature at least.
And ahem… if these water steroids had "no impact … on a horse’s physique or performance", then (a) why were they banned? and (b) why was this trainer bothering to use them in the first place?
Rubbishing our trainers is too easy an answer.
And rubbishing our trainers is the answer ?
The steroid your talking about is used to get a horse back on it’s feed, and doesn’t offer any other real benefits, and why it was used in travelling horses long distances, can also help mares when in season.
As for the reason of banning it, I would say it had a fair bit to do with outside influences and pressures, especially from Hong Kong to step inline with their regulations with horses that are travelled between the two countries, and probably after what happened with takeover target.
As for the steroid Takeover Target got done for altering a horses physique, ask your mate Mark Johnston, and he will tell you the exact same as I am telling you now.
As for us using steroids, the good ones(oil based), there is as much chance that the english are using them, as I believe our testing is far superior to yours
One last comment from me before I go to bed,
So because Mark Johnston is against pre-race testing for bi-carb, as I believe I read here somewhere, does that infact point the finger back at him for being a drug cheat ?
This form of performance enhancement is being used by English trainers as there has been a positive test result just recently, so are we allowed to raise suspicion that every horse that wins a feature staying race from England is either drugged up to the eyeballs with Milkshakes and EPO ?
Anyone is entitled to raise suspicions – I would say that in this case (with the stayers in the UK) and indeed with Aussie sprinters there is near enough zero evidence that either have been used.
Welcome to the forum MagiC~*; good points raised on a topic which has been light on fact so far.
Not sure where this blokes head is he’s raced in Australia and should have some idea on the swabbing done here. All winners are swabbed even at non tab meetings in the bush plus random swabbing of pre race starters at most meetings plus stewards raid stables and swab all horses and go to tracks at trackwork and can swab horses .jockeys’trackwork riders and strappers. The steriod that takeover target proved positive to was legal in aussie at the time as it only assisted horses under stress of travelling long distances and usually is out of their system in 5 days but for some reason he retained it longer and according to vets it did nothing to enhance a horses racing performance it has since been banned here.
As for the steroid Takeover Target got done for altering a horses physique, ask your mate Mark Johnston, and he will tell you the exact same as I am telling you now.
That certainly chimes with what happened with TT in HK.
It wasn’t a case of "drug found, you’re out"
The drug showed up in a test about a week before the race, and the HK stewards kept ordering daily re-testing in the hope it would clear in time, allowing the horse every chance to run until basically overnight before the race, when the stewards took the decision to pull him out (Janiak was still wanting to wait at that point).
I think it eventually took something like 6 months for it to clear the ligament.
And HKJC is a jurisdiction that has fined its trainers for using horse shampoo not just prescribed, but actually directed to be used, by HKJC vets….
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Thanks for that Richo, clears up quite a few points.
In an early post on this thread, it was pointed out that the medication was accidentally injected into the tendon rather than the muscle, hence it not being absorbed and expelled in the normal manner.
Forgive our resident xenophobes and conspiracy theorists.- Total Posts 17716
The steroid your talking about is used to get a horse back on it’s feed, and doesn’t offer any other real benefits, and why it was used in travelling horses long distances, can also help mares when in season.
As for the reason of banning it, I would say it had a fair bit to do with outside influences and pressures, especially from Hong Kong to step inline with their regulations with horses that are travelled between the two countries, and probably after what happened with takeover target.
Thank you for the useful clarification – and so maybe we can all stop "rubbishing" anyone now, until any hard facts turn up in testing.
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