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Mark,
I can assure you the amount was minimal. In fact, due to seepage of medication into the blood system, the results can differ so that one day it can be almost clear in the test and then slightly higher the next day which makes guessing the total clearance more difficult.
TT had won the Global Sprint Challenge but at that time the King’s Stand was a Group 2 race. Therefore he needed to win in Hong Kong to collect the valuable bonus.
The cost of getting a horse from England to Hong Kong and on to Australia plus business class flights and hotels for connections is quite substantial, even for a cabbie.
Declarations for Sunday were on Thursday morning, therefore once he’d past that point he may as well (in his opinion) wait until Sunday morning for the day of race test.
HPC was widely used in Australia because it was known that it was not being tested for even though it would be considered to be a prohibited substance under the rules.
HPC was widely used in Australia because it was known that it was not being tested for even though it would be considered to be a prohibited substance under the rules.
Just want to clarify something,
Can a Vet treat a horse in the UK with any form of steroid, for injury or any other alilment ?
Cheers
Just want to clarify something,
Can a Vet treat a horse in the UK with any form of steroid, for injury or any other alilment ?
That question is too general to answer.
Whatever the vet does in any given circumstance cannot be against Rule 200:
http://rules.britishhorseracing.com/Ord … 00&depth=3
where the term "Prohibited Substance" means:
http://rules.britishhorseracing.com/Ins … 00&depth=3
More positively, what he does must also comply with the Code of Medication Practice for Horses in Training:
http://rules.britishhorseracing.com/Ins … 00&depth=3
as well as the rest of Instruction C.
If a particular scenario fits within those Rules, it fits.
Note that in GB the BHA (formerly Jockey Club) is just about horse racing, whereas the Levy Board has a wider remit:
(a) the improvement of breeds of horses;
(b) the advancement or encouragement of veterinary science or veterinary education;
(c) the improvement of horseracing.
So technically the BHA is not about improving the breed in terms of its rules about what drugs are administered. In that wider context, it just requires whatever is administered to be recorded.
best regards
wit
That question is too general to answer.
The question isn’t to general, it is either a YES or a NO :/
Can a Vet treat a horse with Steroids.
From what I read, a Vet can, as long as it isn’t given to enhance a horses performance.
I don’t see how these rules are any different to the rules in Australia :/
That question is too general to answer.
The question isn’t to general, it is either a YES or a NO :/
it is too general:
– when are you talking about giving the treatment – five hours, five days, five months before a race ?
– why is the treatment being given ?
– is a non-steroid treatment available for the same thing ?
there are lots of details you miss out.
the rules say what they say.
you’re looking for a simple generalisation whereas the rules are always applied to specific circumstances.
in some circumstances a vet might be able to use steroids, in others he won’t. your question is too simple and general for a yes or no answer.
No mate,
You are missing my point.
Can a Vet treat a horse with steroids in England, if that horse is guarenteed to
NOT
return a positive race day ?
There isn’t any grey area’s here,
A simple YES or NO will suffice, if you can’t answer NO, then your answer has to be YES.
This is the exact point I am trying to make, English laws regarding Steroid use are not any different to the Australian ones, and to label us drug cheats, is the same as labelling English trainers Drug cheats
Can a Vet treat a horse with steroids in England, if that horse is guarenteed to
NOT
return a positive race day ?
There isn’t any grey area’s here,
A simple YES or NO will suffice, if you can’t answer NO, then your answer has to be YES.
In GB, race day is not the only time the BHA can test, nor when the prohibition applies.
They can enter the premises of a licensed trainer at any time (Rule 236), and when they do they may by Rule 237(a) "Examine any horse under the care of the Trainer whether or not currently in training. This examination may include the taking of Samples for subsequent analysis"
By Rule 239. (i) "When any horse has been the subject of an examination under Rule 237 and an Analysis of any Sample is positive, as laid down in Sub-Rule (ii) below, the HRA shall impose a fine upon the Trainer of the horse in question and may, at their discretion, withdraw or suspend his licence or permit…."
http://rules.britishhorseracing.com/Ord … 00&depth=3
Rule 239 (ii) says
A result of an Analysis of any Sample is positive for the purposes of Sub-Rule (i) above if a Certificate of Analysis reports the presence in the Sample of
(a) a substance which is, in the opinion of the Veterinary Officer, included in Paragraph 4 of the List of Prohibited Substances set out in Instruction C1 ……..
The items in Paragraph 4 are:
– Anabolic Steroids
– Peptide hormones and analogues
– β2 adrenoceptor stimulants except when prescribed by a Veterinary Surgeon
http://rules.britishhorseracing.com/Ins … 00&depth=3
So:
– are anabolic steroids on the list of Prohibited Substances ? Yes
– can a vet use them on a horse if it is guaranteed not to return a positive on race day ? If you want a YES or NO answer, take your pick from:
YES he can so long as it is not "with intention to affect the racing performance of that horse in a horserace or with knowledge that its racing performance in a horserace could be affected"
NO he can’t if it is "with intention to affect the racing performance of that horse in a horserace or with knowledge that its racing performance in a horserace could be affected "
You get a YES or NO answer to your question but it doesn’t take you anywhere.
It still all depends on whether the particular circumstances fall foul of the quoted words from Rule 220.
So, in the UK vets are allowed to administer any drug, as long as it’s not performance enhancing, and its out of the horse’s system by race day–exactly the same as in Australia. And in Australia, on any day, Stewards can enter any registered stable and take samples for drug testing for any substance whether a horse is due to race in the immediate future or not.
For anyone in the UK to suggest that racing in the UK is totally drug free, while Australia is awash with performance enhancing stuff is total rot–regardless of where you are there will always be a constant battle between the drug makers and the Stewards. The current situation with positive drug results in UK are most likely just the tip of a very large iceberg
Australian Authorities can also visit stables and test for prohibited substances, and seach stables.
Steroids are also illegal in the possession of anybody who is not a Vet
The steroid Takeover Target was prescribed, was not precribed as a peformance enhancing drug, so under your law, no law was broken.
People want to bang on about us being drug cheats, and big steroid users, when in fact our laws are no different from yours, and steroids can only be precribed by a Vet and held by a Vet.
So what it comes down to, is we must be better horse trainers then the likes of Mark Johnstone, which looks like the case, as you guys think it is OK to use Milkshakes to improve the performance of your stayers.
Maybe that is why the English stayers go so terrible here in the Melbourne Cup, because you can’t use Milkshakes, as we pretest every thing, and you guys can’t cheat over here
edit: Sorry bgm, you beat me to it
I did actually post some of our rules of racing of which i’m sure the pro Mark (gee I’m a qualified vet) johnston ones didn’t read
Being a qualified vet means very little actually–if he knew what he was doing he would still be working as a vet instead of being a trainer. He maybe a vet that you wouldn’t have even sent a dying dog to. Maybe the advantage he has from being a qualified vet is he knows which drugs he can administer without getting caught
I would imagine being a trainer is a much more glamorous career than being a VET.
If you have the choice i know which i’d rather be.
Australian Authorities can also visit stables and test for prohibited substances, and seach stables.
Steroids are also illegal in the possession of anybody who is not a Vet
The steroid Takeover Target was prescribed, was not precribed as a peformance enhancing drug, so under your law, no law was broken.
People want to bang on about us being drug cheats
, and big steroid users, when in fact our laws are no different from yours, and steroids can only be precribed by a Vet and held by a Vet.
So what it comes down to, is
we must be better horse trainers
then the likes of Mark Johnstone, which looks like the case, as
you guys think it is OK to use Milkshakes
to improve the performance of your stayers.
Maybe that is why the English stayers go so terrible here in the Melbourne Cup, because you can’t use Milkshakes, as we pretest every thing, and you guys can’t cheat over here
edit: Sorry bgm, you beat me to it
I believe you will find the steroid given to Takeover Target (when failing a drugs test) was given when he was in Japan, not Australia, when already on his journey. So I presume Australian rules had no say in that offence. I doubt wheher the injection would be legal anywhere, when applied directly in to a ligament.
No British person has ever said it is o.k. to use milkshakes. Where is your evidence for this?
I don’t think anyone, not even Mark Johnston, has said all Aussies are drugs cheats. Didn’t the great man say something very similar to your words above? That Aussies may be better horse trainers. All he was pointing out was that many Aussie sprinters have abnormal (compared to Europeans) muscle definition, for whatever reason.
It is strange how those Aussie sprinters don’t seem to keep their form long once over here. Now, I could say that this may be because you can’t cheat once in GB (like you imply of us). But I wouldn’t dare suggest such a thing.
Who are these English trainers with such a bad record in the Melbourne Cup anyway? Luca Cumani has gone very close in previous years. Are you counting Aidan O’Brien as English perhaps? I know the Aussie commentators find it difficult telling the English and Irish apart.
Value Is EverythingWhat were eg Jurox Pty’s product sales figures for HPC for the 3 years prior to testing being introduced in Feb 07 as compared with what they are now?
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