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“Hope you backed the winner, FF91. Your interpretation was spot-on! 👍”
Unfortunately I did not, by the time king pulled trueshan out I was on the golf course
Thanks for that Alan
“Unfortunately I did not, by the time king pulled trueshan out I was on the golf course”
Loving the brutal honesty from FF – maximum respect.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"My earlier comment about running Quickthorn over hurdles was not entirely facetious. He is a gelding.
I suppose there are lots more targets he can be aimed at nowadays but in the not too distant past it would have been an obvious move to run him over hurdles in the winter.
Many say the winner is quirky, but he’s now won his last three.
Did they let him get away?
I look at the time and I’m not so sure.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"My earlier comment about running Quickthorn over hurdles was not entirely facetious. He is a gelding.
I suppose there are lots more targets he can be aimed at nowadays but in the not too distant past it would have been an obvious move to run him over hurdles in the winter.
Agree, it would have been a natural progression. Now any horse that wins a decent staying race, and it’s predictable; Melbourne Cup…..
If the top (Gd1/Gd2) hurdle races had proper prize money, then I think we’d still see some trying over hurdles. But why bother when Australia/Middle East offer so much more. Even the A/W is now preferable to running over hurdles…..
As has been said many times, if Sea Pigeon had been around today, would he even have ever been sent hurdling?
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Only if the connections really wanted to; otherwise, no, not worth it. Too many valuable staying races on the Flat.
ID – Have a feeling he would have still gone hurdling as he did nothing on the flat as a 4yr old (after being gelded) in 1974 and it was only after becoming established as a top hurdler 1976-77 that he started winning those handicaps back on the flat from 1977-1980.
Yes there are now much more opportunities at 1m6F to 2m and races like the Irish St Leger & Melbourne Cup are open to geldings but there are also now a lot more level weight graded races over hurdles (especially given they are mostly small field tactical races in which his flat speed would be a major weapon) so he wouldn’t have to be lumping 12st+ in big handicap hurdles.
Tim Easterby would be his trainer now and he is a dual purpose trainer like his dad so I could well see him going the down the dual purpose route with him if he was around today. The fact that you couldn’t come late enough with your challenge on him would make him tailor made for a Jamie Spencer special….
“tailor made for a Jamie Spencer special…”
So he’d lose loads of races he should have won? 🤔
Are stayers on the flat a bit slow for the Champion Hurdle; vice versa, often wondered if Willie had ever considered Faugheen and Annie Power for the Ascot Gold Cup.
Many 1m2f flat horses stay 2m over hurdles (eg Kribensis and Alderbrook). But Some flat stayers will be effective at the jumping minimum trip too. Royal Gait “won” both Ascot Gold Cup (disqualified) and Champion Hurdle. Suspect the latter would’ve been just as effective over 3m though.
The different distances a horse is effective at may be something to do with the slower pace or enthusiasm shown for jumping?
So nobody (Mullins included) would know if Annie Power / Faugheen would be effective at the Ascot Gold Cup trip until trying it. But also, one of the reasons why they were both so effective at hurdling is their fast and (usually) accurate jumping. ie Take the obstacles away and they’re less likely to be top class. Annie Power and Faugheen might just as easily have been little more than handicappers if tried on the flat. Jumpers are also older and therefore have less time to learn the game to make up into a top flat horse unless it was a top flat horse before going jumping… And then there’s the fact that flat horses are usually better quality animals. All reasons a top jumper is less likely to make into a top flat horse and why it is so rarely tried that way around. Has it ever been tried?
Value Is Everything“All reasons a top jumper is less likely to make into a top flat horse and why it is so rarely tried that way around. Has it ever been tried?”
Multiple G1 winner John’s Call was a promising novice hurdler for jumps trainer Tom Voss, got injured, spent two years on the sidelines and then worked his way back up the flat ranks. Voss had a couple “accidental’ flat horses like that, G2 winner Dreadnaught was another.
“All reasons a top jumper is less likely to make into a top flat horse and why it is so rarely tried that way around. Has it ever been tried?”
Given the use of ‘ever’ I hope this example is a good fit.
Brown Jack won 7 from 10 hurdle races in 1927/1928 including the Champion Hurdle. Competing exclusively on the Flat from thereon in, the horse won an Ascot Stakes, six Queen Alexandra Stakes, a Goodwood Cup, a Doncaster Cup, a Chester Cup, and an Ebor Handicap.
The conventional wisdom is a horse will generally stay further over hurdles than on the Flat and further still over fences.
They simply can’t go as attritional a pace when facing at least eight flights of hurdles and that’s accentuated when facing at least 12 fences.
But other things matter – like run styles.
I’ve known 6f sprinters, who were amenable to being being held up on the level, get 2m over timber and I’ve known front-running milers fail to get home over hurdles.
There are no hard and fast rules, but I’m always fairly confident any horse that stays 1m4f on the Flat will get 2m over hurdles.
You’d think a Gold Cup horse off the Flat would be more of a Stayers’ Hurdle type, but Royal Gait had the speed.
I’m sure Faugheen would have stayed extreme distances on the Flat – he was an Irish Point winner and, more importantly, a staying hurdler himself later in his career.
Annie Power was runner up in a Stayers’ Hurdle, so I’m sure she’d have got the trip on the Flat too.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"
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